doc benway

I understand your point, however, if there is no presence of rational human thought to judge true vs not-true, is truth meaningful? Is truth meaningful without mind to judge it relative to non-truth? So the stimulus for the development of Buddhism is suffering and it's resolution comes about through the recognition of impermanence. I think we're all on the same page. The major difference I find between these perspectives is whether we choose to focus on the suffering or it's resolution - is the incense burner half full or half empty?

While I agree that the doctrine of impermanence is at the very core of Buddhism, it is dangerous to become too attached even to this doctrine, or any other for that matter. After all, this doctrine itself has arisen and therefore must cease.

I think the need for a guru is a paradox. On the one hand, a guru is generally needed to help guide us along a path for some period of time or shake up our ideas and point us in a direction. On the other hand, it is up to each of us to go beyond where the guru can take us. He can take us to a threshold but we must cross it and continue totally alone. One of the most profound thinkers I've studied is a man who emphatically claimed that there is no path or method to the truth and that there are no gurus. It is up to each of us to find our way (J Krishnamurti).

Most definitions of honesty include words like fairness, uprightness, and the quality of truthfulness. Procurator's behavior toward Growant had nothing to do with fairness, uprightness, or truthfulness. It was deceitful, dishonest, and malicious. Just because he admitted to his unprovoked attack, does not mean that his behavior in this matter was honest. When my children admit to unacceptable behavior, they are not absolved of responsibility for their actions.

The ultimate irony in all of this is the very idea of a racist cultivating Dao. If the racist ever awakens to the true nature of Dao, he will find that he IS that which he hates and that which he hates IS him. The distinction between the two is the very illusion he is trying so hard to transcend. Clearly Procurator has not experienced that truth and I wonder what effect it would have on him if he ever does. Such a poisoned and closed mind may never be capable of that sort of realization, it seems to me, as the truth would be too threatening. Sean, I know this must have been a very difficult decision and action for you to take. I applaud your decision to ban Procurator. As always, you have displayed patience, wisdom, and clarity in how you handled the situation. Procurator stepped way over the line in my opinion and I, for one, have no interest in being a voluntary part of a community that would welcome, support, or even tolerate such behavior as he demonstrated. In my view, your action has demonstrated the integrity of this forum and you as its moderator. Daoism, unlike most other religious traditions, has relatively little in the way of explicit moral codes or guidelines and this leads to the mistaken assumption by the ignorant or inexperienced that Daoism lacks morality. The very process of true and meaningful cultivation naturally leads to true morality, which is an extension of life. I believe this is the very reason why moral codes are not more explicitly spelled out in the Daoist canon - morality from a book is artificial. That which arises naturally from the human who is in balance with life is real and meaningful and cannot be misunderstood or abused.

Hi Sean, I'm glad to see your sensitive, sensible, and considered response. I was looking forward to your thoughts. I respect your decision and rationale. You are an excellent moderator and there are several special people on this forum that make it worthwhile despite the occasional bad apple. I've always known there was something more deeply diseased in Procurator based on his consistently elitist, critical, and hurtful responses. It comes as no surprise that he has the immature, ignorant, and narrow-minded views of a racist. People like Procurator are cowards. They attack in relative anonymity or with the protection of a group. They are the product of equally ignorant parents or peers. All of us are a product of our conditioning and there is no conditioning more effective or more harmful, to the individual and society at large, than racism. What's more important than banning him from participation in this forum is that we all now know what type of person he is. It's up to us as individuals to choose whether to maintain a relationship with him or not. I've ignored his posts for a long time and will continue to do so. There is no punishment anyone could mete out that could be worse than actually being such a person. He is beneath my contempt. Rather than expect you to formally ban him Sean, any members of this forum who choose to take a stand against racism and bigotry in our group of friends can simply act as if Procurator had been banned. It is very easy to do. He is already on my ignore list and will stay there permanently. Some of you may disagree with my position and I respect each person's right to make their own choice. As far as I'm concerned Procurator does not exist on this forum and I would encourage all members of like mind to simply place him on ignore permanently.

I'm not in the least surprised. He has been on my ignore list for quite some time. I believe that such behavior should result in a permanent ban. He is free to hate who he chooses but this action is reprehensible.

From what I've seen, the Taiwanese tea is the best (at least for wulong). I agree that tea from China is inconsistent at best. It often has a strange flavor. Chinese products have been demonized for good reason. I don't believe it is xenophobia. It is a response to toxic products coming out of China. Just look at air and water pollution in China - health does not appear to be a very high priority in Beijing... The US is not much better in that arena but I do believe the US has a much more effective consumer protection program in place - it's not perfect but it's something.

You have no choice, my friend. Enjoy!

Very nicely put, cat. Great image!

_/\_

"I" am not the nasty bruise on my arm either... Death is unquestionably one of the most natural acts a human being can participate in. It requires absolutely no education, training, preparation,... nothing. No matter what we do before death, we die just the same. No matter what is done with the corpse, we are dead. All of the ideas about what happens next are just the products of the beautifully fertile human imagination. I find it fascinating to see all the rituals and machinations that all of the various cultures have indulged in when there's absolutely nothing to be done other than to die.

"I" am not the body. What happens to the body after it dies is of no consequence to me. I would prefer cremation or animal consumption rather than taking up space in a box in a graveyard. My wife wants me to stuff her and have her standing in the kitchen. I'm not sure if I'm going to go that route if she goes first...

Great topic! As usual, here's a long winded response... I think these are all reasonable questions that merit factual answers. Once the teacher answers those questions, then what? That is the real question. Do more questions follow? Does one question every detail of every movement, looking for explanations and answers from the teacher or does one practice what is shown 1,000 times and find answers within the practice? Answers are dead, they end the question, the search, the exploration. When someone gives you their answer, it is valid for them. It may or may not be the same for you. Also, when someone satisfies your intellectual inquiry, you know the answer as a thought, as a representation of the reality. That is never the same as having the experience of the reality. The question however is very alive. Living with the question encourages us to search, to experiment, and perhaps to find a solution. The failures during that search are every bit as, or more important than, the ultimate answer. Our thoughts tell us that we know something when we understand it intellectually - that is, we are able to relate it to something we already know or have experienced. This is often misleading, especially in experiential matters like internal martial arts, qigong, and meditation. If we relate the knew to the old, we really haven't learned anything new, we've just categorized it. I think that the traditional method is very valuable in internal martial arts, qigong, and meditation training. If you find the answers yourself, they stay with you. The answer resides in your bones, not just in your mind. I recently watched a video of a Xingyi master. It was a great presentation. As I watched it, I realized that I had come to understand all of the fine details that he was describing and explaining. The interesting thing is that my teacher never explained any of those details to me. He demonstrated the movements and talked a bit about the mindset and basic principles. He answered any questions I had, but I never asked that many because I trusted his method. Years later, the details have expressed themselves through my practice and are a part of me and are all very similar to this master who teaches a different style of Xingyi! I don't know that it would be the same with a different teaching method, I also don't know that it wouldn't. When we learn through question and answer, once our intellectual curiosity is satisfied, we believe that we know what we are doing. This is not the case with experiential matters. I've seen many people come to the martial arts and meditation with the questioning mind and once their questions are answered, without learning through gong fu (work over time), they think they know it and leave because they are bored and want something new. That is the nature of mind. Just thoughts and answers that work for me... You've got to figure out what works for you! Good luck.

It is there, always there. It is the very fabric of our being. It is already stronger than we can ever imagine. It is simply a matter of stripping away all of the conditioning and attachments that have brought us away from it, but that is extraordinarily difficult. It takes enormous energy and yet one can't be attached even to the goal of achieving it. Even that attachment will be the greatest obstacle. Look thoroughly and deeply at yourself, your habits, desires, relationships and all that. If you can look so deeply that you ultimately see through yourself, it will be there waiting and it will be absolutely unmistakable. But it requires patient attention and awareness to maintain, it is not like turning on a lightswitch but more like fanning a spark. Don't give up!

Cat, Very cool to see you take the time to acknowledge everyone like that. Best wishes to you

Very nice Lin! I look forward to visiting someday soon. Best wishes for great success for you and your patients.

It depends on what you're looking for - a description of practices, history, philosophy, and so on? My favorite book on Daoism is Osho's: When the Shoe Fits. It's not a description of Daoism or Daoist practices but the flavor of Dao comes through quite effectively. It's a collection of Osho's commentary on selected writing of Zhuang Zi (Chuang Tzu). It was the first thing I ever read about Daoism and it had a profound effect on me. I recently loaned it to a friend from China who is a practicing Daoist and she loves it. It's a bit bombastic and over the top, as is Osho's style, but I think he was at his best in this work. For a more direct descriptive approach that is very down to earth and easy to relate to, Alan Watts' Tao:The Watercourse Way is decent.

In the sense that "objective" refers to "(adj.) undistorted by emotion or personal bias; based on observable phenomena" then I would answer NO. Reality does not have an objective component. The separation of subject and object is illusory and Heisenberg was correct. The observer influences the observation, they cannot be independent. On the other hand, we are approaching a more comprehensive mathematical approximation of our observations. It's exciting but I don't think it'll change much (other than with respect to continuing exponential technological advancement).

I also don't practice the micro orbit while standing. When I stand, I generally sink qi to dan tian and simply stay present and aware within the body allowing the thoughts to pass without attaching to them. There are neigong exercises that combine a variety of intent exercises with standing but in the beginning I think it's best to stand and develop a connection with the body in the various postures.

This is a wonderful discussion. I'll throw out a few points I've picked up from a variety of sources that have resonated with me. Love is not an emotion. Emotions are states that flow in and out of us that teach us, heal us, and guide us. They vary from minute to minute or day to day. So anger is extremely valuable - it's what gets us to speak up for ourselves or others, to want to right wrongs and so forth. Fear keeps us out of the dark alley or has us prepare for the needle stick and so forth. All the emotions are there for good reason and are natural and necessary. We don't always handle them skillfully or naturally and so alot of emotional pathology is out there. What many of us confuse with love are emotions of lust, attraction, attachment to a relationship and so forth. If you can strip away all of the attachments, the thoughts, the distractions in our lives, and connect with that which you truly are, which is what we all are, the wholeness is restored and that is love. It's always there as the ground substance but is usually obscured.

Here is a quote from the explanation associated with that video: "Steve the BaGua hit man lost his first Lei Tai match, but he did well for someone who only been training in BaGuazhang for a few months to enter a full-contact Lei Tai Match. " I give the guy credit for fighting full contact after a few months of training. I have seen skillful people with 20 years of traditional martial arts training resort to a slugfest in a full contact fight. It's a rare practitioner that makes a full contact fight look like quality martial technique. In addition, anyone who fights competitively knows that the rules dictates the techniques. You win on the Lei Tai by doing what works on the Lei Tai. You win in the octagon by doing what works there. I agree that this fellow isn't showing a lot of skill yet but at least he's out there living it. PS I don't think I would call this Lei Tai - in my book it ain't Lei Tai if it ain't a few feet in the air. It makes a huge difference to be thinking about falling or getting thrown off the platform.

I don't know if this will be helpful but here are some thoughts based on my own work. What is it that causes me to feel good or bad in a relationship or situation? Generally it's attachment. I experience emotions related to things and relationships, sometimes positive and sometimes negative - that's all normal. It's only when I identify with or attach to those emotions or to an anticipated outcome or expectation that I suffer. When attachment occurs there is conflict because we either move to avoid or supress or we desire more. Simply being with the experience fully, without acting out of conditioning and without comparing or judging (others or ourselves), but simply accepting and opening to it usually leads to dissolution, whether the stimulus is positive or negative. The next piece is the action you decide to take. Rather than let the action be dictated by the emotion, it's interesting to see if the two can be separated. So I feel something from the relationship, and regardless what that feels like, I get to choose how I'm going to respond. And the best response is the one that is most consistent with my core values, which is something that is worth getting in touch with. If I'm reacting out of conditioning, I will remain in conflict, unless it coincidentally is consistent with my values. So it could be possible to remain in a relationship, experience those negative emotions associated with it without becoming attached to the emotions, and act in a manner that is determined by your values, not your conditioning. Then you are invincible. No matter what the other person does, it is your choice to act in any fashion imaginable. No matter what emotional content the relationship has, it has no control over you. We're under the illusion that other people "make us" angry or sad or happy or whatever. It's not true - it is entirely up to us, if we so choose. We have the opportunity to determine not only our response, but how we feel about it. It's only when we're asleep and reacting out of conditioning and attachment rather that acting out of awareness, that we are slaves to relationships, addicitons, and so forth. It's not easy to live in awareness like that but it is possible. The old traps are always there to step into - it's much easier to be a robot than to stay awake all the time. It's what I've been working on for 2 years now. It's changed my life. I wouldln't presume to give you advice or recommend any specific action but I do think the whole idea of relationship is fascinating and worth a lot of attention. Good luck cat

Do you know anything about his upcoming tour?

He is an excellent martial artist. You can see how he brings his Ba Gua sensibility into his Tai Ji form. I hope his travels bring him close to me so I could attend a seminar. Hopefully he will come to Black Taoist's school in NY. I rarely go to seminars (I barely have enough time to train what my own teacher gives me) but I'd very much like to meet Master Xu.