doc benway

When the Buddha was asked about the afterlife, he replied with "a thunderous silence." There are "things" (like God, the afterlife, and enlightenment) that are beyond words and ideas, thoughts and concepts. Throwing words at such "things" is mostly a waste of time, it's all inaccurate and gratuitous. We can each describe our experiences in this area but it's like telling you what the color red looks like without comparing it to something you already have seen. Like Lin said - it's better to practice than speculate.

I voted no after reading this post from another thread by Masterforge: "I put forward a suggestion of making many sub forums but I am glad this didn't happen so we have to congregate together [f]or good or worse." Checking out threads I think don't interest me often leads to pleasant surprises... If there were more subforums, I'd probably hang out in those that I'm drawn to and miss out on good stuff. Tags seem like a good alternative.

"keen one-pointed mind" - it's critical to be clear and focused to maintain such a challenging search "controlling speech and breath" - this is puzzling to me. I guess controlling speech refers to staying focused on the search for the origin of I, refraining from distractions and so on. What about controlling breath? Ramana wasn't much of an advocate of specific meditation practices or techniques. Is it a reflection of the "water" analogy? Again reminding us that it may take a long time and we must be patient and disciplined and persevere?

Funny as hell! Not that I've ever been HAF... Stig and Masterforge - thanks for the kind words, it means a lot to me _/\_

After eight insufferable years of Bush administration rule by intimidation and exploitation, there is finally some cause for celebration. It's impossible to say what sort of leader Barak Obama will be but just to have a president who can formulate a basic sentence and speak with compassion and equanimity is thrilling. 40 years ago Obama would not have been able to drink from the same water fountain as me or attend the same public school. In a few months he will be my president. Seeing my country elect Bush to a second term was humiliating and infuriating. Helping my country to elect our first African-American president is an historic landmark. It's a very proud day for America.

I'd like to mention to everyone that there is a TV series starting tonight at 9pm EST called Whale Wars on Animal Planet about Paul Watson and the Sea Shepard Society's battle against Japanese whalers in the Antarctic. I'm currently reading a book about this called Whale Warriors which is quite good. I bet the series will be worth watching.

Darin - I may differ with you on the definition of porn vs art and my tolerance level my be different. That makes very little difference to either of us. The majority may define the "norm" but thank goodness there is room for diversity. I respect you for your commitment to your values and your honesty. I'm glad you've decided to stay on the forum. I almost signed off recently myself. Sean is what kept me here. Patrick is very full of himself - he has a lot of work to do.

If you are able to sit for 30-60 minutes with relaxed and comfortable, yet upright posture, the effect should be satisfactory. I don't use either, I use the Burmese posture and sit on a zabuton/zafu.

A few additional thoughts: When you watch someone performing Daoist rituals and worship, be they bowing to deities or blessing something, it looks a lot like religion. If you watch someone divining using Yijing and yarrow, it looks like shamanism. When you read Laozi, Zhuangzi, and Liezi it looks a lot like philosophy. When you practice meditation and other aspects of cultivation, it looks quite a bit like yoga - is that religion? philosophy? mental and physical exercise? I don't know. I don't think it's possible or even useful to try and limit Daoism by any categorizing or labeling it. My Chinese friends describe it as part religion, part philosophy, part practice, and partly a general framework or foundation of daily life. For most people in China, Daoist principles are blended with Buddhist, Confucian, and Maoist sensibilities and now Western ideologies as well. I don't think it's easy to really separate out the Daoist component from the rest. In terms of the exportation of Daoism to the West, we've latched on primarily to philosophical aspects and a few of us have been fortunate enough to be exposed to cultivation methods. Very little of the religious traditions travelled outside of China other than in the families of the Chinese diaspora.

Very nicely stated - please don't apologize for length, I thought you were pretty concise considering the subject matter.

27. The State of non-emergence of 'I' is the state of being THAT. Without questing for that State of the non-emergence of 'I' and attaining It, how can one accomplish one's own extinction, from which the 'I' does not revive? Without that attainment how is it possible to abide in one's true State, where one is THAT? Now we're being seriously challenged to do the work! The State of non-emergence is the state of being THAT. THis is a statement, a definition. It is the core of non-duality. Exactly what another great Vedanta master talked about - Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj, Sailor Bob's guru. His most famous book is I Am That. Without questing for that State of the non-emergence of 'I' and attaining It, how can one accomplish one's own extinction, from which the 'I' does not revive? What is this? Is it an admonition to quest? Is it a subtle reminder that the quest simply reinforces the emergence of "I"? I think it may be Ramana teasing us, winking and smiling and beckoning us with his index finger, chuckling in his belly. Without that attainment how is it possible to abide in one's true State, where one is THAT? Is this rhetorical? I think so but perhaps not... Again, who is there to attain anything? The one who attains has arisen and cannot be THAT...

Nice post What do we do in America if not: Praise the worthy Esteem the valuable and Display the beautiful. We fill their minds and their bellies, strengthen ambitions and weaken the bones. We withhold knowledge and inflame desire No harmony remains...

Very nicely stated.

Something occured to me... Is it possible that any of our enemies might be celebrating because they'd prefer to be our friends? We'll never know if we never open the door to dialogue.

Nothing is fixed and static in my view. I do agree that there will always be misery and suffering as long as there is happiness and joy. They define eachother - mutual arising. On the other hand, there are things that can be done to mitigate some suffering and talking with enemies is always worth a try prior to pre-emptive war... I voted for Obama because of his relative inexperience. IMO, experience on capitol hill = corruption and compromise, and no one has exprience being the president, nor do I think experience as a senator or governor makes an enormous difference. I think the intelligence and demeanor of the president are what counts the most. I'm hoping he is a bit more genuine and sincere than most presidential candidates. I'm hoping he has a bit more of an open mind and his actions during the campaign seem to demonstrate equanimity and a sense of tolerance and compassion which I think is critical in a position of leadership (all of which seem to be laking in his predecessor or opponent).

Agreed! Both excellent points...

One of the most important skills we try to develop in Taiji is song. There's no better way to do this than to use each Taiji posture as a standing meditation. Some of the stances make it tough to hold the postures (xu bu and pu bu) for very long but over time you can build up to a substantial amount of time with the majority of postures. I will periodically take my class through one or two sections of the form, pausing in each posture for a minute or two. Other times, we'll hold a few postures for longer. I encourage students to practice this at home. I think it's a very powerful training method.

Agreed - in fact, I believe that the entire 40 Verses is a progressive development of the "Who Am I" method in a stepwise fashion.

This set looks completely different from what I practice. Some of the techniques look a lot like 8 brocades...

I like that! _/\_

I generally do ~ 40 minutes of sitting every morning so I voted for the less than 7 hours/week. If you count trying to be mindful throughout the day, it's much more than 7 hours per week but that probably doesn't fit into a specific method that would be easily measured.

_/\_

Not so much a problem but a challenge or a work in progress - How to truly know oneself and best relate to one's partner and children. Also, currently I am struggling with a massive, life altering decision. I am entertaining the possibility of a cross country move. One which will allow me to do more of what I want to do professionally and also live in a healthier environment. The downside is leaving some family behind and the magnitude and apprehension of a big change like this on myself and my family.

Don't try and control or empty the thoughts. Don't become attached to them (ie following them to see where they lead). Just pay attention. Be in the present moment with the breath. When you realize that you are caught up in a train of thoughts, simply come back to the present moment and the breath. Don't make an effort to stay empty, it will come along naturally as you become more accustomed to being aware and in the present. Genuine Article, There are different techniques. Sitting and forgetting is more a description of the purpose than of the method. It means to see through the illusion and simply be what we are. I'm just outlining a very simple and basic technique for meditation practice which is the heart and sould of Buddhism and Daoism and which is much more valuable than reading all the books ever written, IMNSHO.

I have no experience with Wong but I practice Shi Ba Luo Han and it's a great set. It's a lot to learn in one seminar. It would be very helpful if there was some way you could get some corrections from someone experienced down the road after practicing for a few months, years.... PS I think that there are multiple variations on the Luo Han theme