doc benway

My primary focus currently is Taijiquan and Dao meditation. I also practice Xingyiquan in the Hebei lineage but the Xingyi takes a back seat to Taiji and meditation lately. Our Taijiquan program is based on Yang style and Chen Pan Ling style. We practice a very comprehensive Taijiquan curriculum (2 jian forms, 2 dao forms, staff, spear, 2 man set, jian 2 man set, qin na, fixed and moving da lu drills, multiple other 2 man drills, pushing hands, san da, free fighting, supplemental qigong and neigong). Our Dao meditation lineage comes from Liu Peizhong. I practice some basic circle walking but have not pursued a serious study of Bagua yet - simply too much to practice on my plate already! My school also has an external program. We cross train a bit with the external guys but that's not a big part of my focus. Prior to my current focus, I spent time in a few 'external' systems dating back to the early '70's including Wing Chun, Japanese sword arts (kendo, iaido, and iaijutsu), and Shorinjiryu Kenyukai Karate. My teacher and fellow instructors are the best group of people I've ever trained with. We have a group of really dedicated folks who take our training seriously and work together to try and figure out how to really make the stuff work. Our teacher recognizes our efforts and loves to teach when he sees serious students who want to learn. I'm very fortunate to be in this situation currently and I'm trying to take full advantage of the opportunity. These situations never last forever but, while I can, I plan to learn as much as I can and perfect what I'm taught to the best of my ability.

I haven't seen the Nat Geo program but will try to track it down for entertainment value. I think that the discussion about Qi take a wrong turn early on in most cases. It is not a discussion about the existence of Qi but one of definition. Qi unquestionably exists as a concept and a word. It's deeply ingrained in the understanding of life in some cultures and not others. That's all any word is - a thought and a verbal or written representation of a thought, a label - just like an adhesive label with the word sofa written on it stuck on a bare floor. The word and thought Qi are never the thing. So what needs to happen is a discussion about what it is we are trying to point to with the label Qi. I think that Nat Geo was trying to point out that supernatural manifestations of the kind very popular among a small number of people cannot be verified or reproduced under sufficiently standardized conditions. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't think they, or anyone, can disprove the existence or absence of Qi - just the inability of a few charlatans to come through with their bullshit claims. The best "Qi masters" generally will not perform their magic under sufficiently controlled circumstances to validate or invalidate their claims. Gee, I wonder why? Lack of confidence? Lack of honesty? There is certainly no lack of potential reward and opportunity... Anyway - I am absolutely convinced of the existence of Qi from my own experiential perspective. But the thing is, Qi is just a word I am using to label something I feel or experience, NOT the other way around. My definition would be closer to that of daoian, though not identical. I experience Qi as sort of something that occurs at the interface of awareness, intention, attention, and the process of existence. To date, there is no accepeted definition and no "objectively" measurable stuff or energy that has been validated by the scientific method that we can all point to and say THAT is Qi. Efforts to ascribe special power or ability to it are a human contrivance to use (usually exploit) the idea for personal gain. I find it better left undefined and minimally categorized or pigeon-holed. Demonstrations, descriptions, and definitions never capture it. Just like thoughts, words, and concepts are never that which they are trying to describe. The study of Taiji and Dao meditation, however, can certainly put one in touch with an experience of an activity or process that I feel comfortable labeling Qi.

Great presentation Jane. Your dedication and years of training are very obvious in this demo. If I ever make it out to SF, I would like to look you up. It would be fun to share!

I find it a bit distracting to be too concerned with specific theoretical and verbal descriptions of many aspects of taiji, including weight distribution. The 3 nails, bubbling well, K-1, and so forth. My approach has been to adjust my posture based on the Taiji classics. The specific posture and movement determine where the pressure distribution is at any given moment and it varies. When the toes grip and release, it varies. Moving forward and back or side to side, it varies. In two legged standing, I do feel the entire foot. It does feel that there is a concentration or focusing of awareness toward the center of the foot, a bit behind the ball (call it what you will) and yet I don't make that a goal nor the focus of concentration. I'd recommend that you open yourself to your practice and experience the feeling and reach your own conclusions. Following someone else's opinion of what's right or wrong doesn't teach you as much as your own experience. Theoretical concerns regarding energy flow are all well and good but try to remember that they are just an incomplete method of sharing an experience verbally rather than the experience itself. The experience is real. The theoretical and verbal description are simply verbal approximations...

What's the difference?

Based on my experience training in Wing Chun, Xingyi, Bagua, and Taiji, I believe Wing Chun to be primarily an external art. I think that some Wing Chun teachers have recognized the benefits of internal training and supplemented their training with those methods. The chi sao in the video clip is clearly a blend of chi sao with push hands. Traditional chi sau is much more focused on striking then pushing. We've been seeing a number of Wing Chun players starting to compete in push hands events at our tournaments. They find the cross-over to be valuable in their chi sao and some of them do quite well at push hands, especially restricted step. The three generally recognized internal arts have one thing in common - they strongly emphasize standing and/or moving meditation as a core focus in their training regimens - Xingyi=santishi, Bagua=circle walking, Taiji=slow meditative form, plus all involve additional standing and sitting meditation. This is not a fundamental core element of traditional Wing Chun training to my knowledge although all styles of martial art utilize meditation, posure, whole body power, etc... We did some neigong exercises and some standing and sitting meditation but it was a small component of the training, relatively speaking.

It's not unusual to hear a voice when the mind quiets during deep meditation. My teacher has always told me it is important to ignore it and continue the meditation with no concern whatsoever for what a voice may say. On very rare occasions, I think I hear my named called or a very brief garble of words and cannot find the source, outside of meditation. I ignore it. Frequent or consistent auditory hallucinations, particularly if they are detailed and clear messages or discussions or multiple voices, can be a symptom of mental illness and should be shared with a psychologist or psychiatrist, IMO. Lozen - your experience seems very rare and related to exhaustion and I wouldn't be too concerned unless it becomes more frequent and focused. I think that, during fatigue, sometimes we can mistake a thought for an auditory or visual experience. This may be what happened with your boyfriend.

Thank you for the link to this beautifully articulated discussion. What I find fascinating is to wonder how the "knowing" occurs that this is so. Why do some feel this to be unquestionable, experiential truth and others do not? What occurs to lead to that transition? If any of us has experienced this transition, would you be comfortable discussing it in this forum? Do all methods achieve this? Does any method achieve this? I don't think these are necessarily answerable questions but they are stimulating, at least for "me" Thanks again for this very insightful link WWD! _/\_

All good points Franklin - very nice post. I agree that a simple system practiced and studied very deeply is more likely to be of real value than a complex system. More complexity means less time to perfect each step and each detail. As for new converts or beginning students being the most intense, I think there are a number of reasons: - the new adept only has a superficial understanding of the system and may not yet have had any negative experiences or information creep in to muddy the waters - the new student is at the stage where everything is new and exciting and they are working hard to absorb things and put them together. They haven't yet had the chance to become bored or disillusioned - the new adept has a (probably unrealistic) very high regard for their teacher or guru and has yet to have any reason to see through this and appreciate the fact that the teacher is imperfect and human Regarding the relationship with yourself - how many of us know who and what we really are? 'Ourself' is basically a story we are conditioned to accept. We can easily fall out of love with ourselves. Our relationship with ourself often doesn't work out - ie mental and physical illness...

I experimented with lot's of stuff in the 70's. K wasn't much available then but PCP was, which is very closely related. My exprience has been that drugs simulate states of mind that can be achieved through non-drugged methods but that the experiences and ideas that occur through intoxication are basically just entertainment. It gives the impression of awakening and understanding but it's really just a toxic alteration of awareness and perception that does little or nothing advantageous for you in the long run. The one benefit may be that it opens up the mind to alternatives to mundane, "by the socio-cultural rules", existence. The danger is that it becomes the focus rather than the catalyst. Furthermore, the intensity and physiologic effects often lead to harmful consequences. K is particularly hazardous due to it's intensity. I'd highly recommend always having a sober "sitter" when doing it if you must indulge. None of my drug experiences are anything like the insight and development that have come through the slow, deliberate, and disciplined work in Dao meditation, neigong, taijiquan, and selected reading and interacting with others. In a very similar vein, many spiritual practices are quite similar to the effect of entheogenic drugs. There's a reason why Karl Marx called religion the drug of the masses. Spiritual experience of great intensity is little different than drug induced entertainment. People tend to be turned on by the intensity of feeling, whether it's seeing colors and spirit guides or the body shaking or waves of orgasmic euphoria - it's all entertainment. It's highly addictive - it's like internet porn or collecting fine wine and so on. Always looking for a more intense experience that is more seducing to the sense or the intellect. Always waiting for that step that'll take one closer to "enlightenment" whatever that may mean to us. There's nothing more insidioius than the spiritual addiction that many of us get hooked on in our innocent yearning for something more than what is our "boring" everyday experience. And there is an enormous business devoted to exploiting this very thing. I'm not saying that we shouldn't try to improve ourselves and search for new experience but beware the path changing from catalyst to doctrine or objective. So those of us that self-righteously decry drug intoxication should take a close look at ourselves in the midst of our spiritual and intellectual intoxication. It's not as different as one might think. It's all a matter of perspective.

Nice illustration, thanks for that.

This is a common topic of discussion and I've put my ideas out there before so I apologize to those of you who've read similar posts from me (especially if you think I'm full of ...) I find it interesting to see how people tend to consider Qi as something separate from themselves. We tend to conceptualize Qi as stuff that moves into or out of us via orifices and so forth. We talk about things transmitting and blocking Qi. Gaining Qi and losing Qi and storing Qi and so on. I don't buy that concept. We are not separate from what's around us. That is just an illusion created by our sensory organs. Even if Qi were some sort of stuff or energy, it would not be anything separate from us anyway, it would simply be part of our constitution. I believe Qi is more an interaction, a process, not stuff, even in an energetic sense. Qi, in my view, may be more the interaction between our awareness and the fabric of our being, on a level that is foreign to our usual level of experience. I don't feel that Qi is something I can store or gain or lose. I don't think it's something separate from "me" or even any"thing" at all. It is process, not substance. My ability to become aware of or tuned into the experience of being is accentuated through certain practices. These practices are said to increase Qi but to me it's more a matter of refining and sensitizing the ability to perceive on a level that's not usually part of our daily lives. The practices of meditation, yoga, taiji, sensory deprivation, neigong, and so forth, exercise and develop our abilities to sense a different facet of being (a different "wavelength" some might say). I think these practices develop a part of the brain that is usually ignored because it's overshadowed by the more mundane funcitons of sight, hearing, smell, taste, and tactile sensation that keep us alive and well. These other senses need to become very quiet before the more subtle sense can be experienced and developed. This experience of our lives, selves, and environment on a different level as sensed through the "Qi antenna" to use a silly but useful image is more akin to my experience of Qi. This idea goes against the grain of how we normally conceptualize and discuss Qi but it's where my head is at currently as a consequence of Dao meditation, Neigong, and Taijiquan practice, and so I thought I'd put it out there FWIW....

I used to use Discipline shoes but now I much prefer Adidas Sambas. I injured one foot years ago and the Sambas have a nice arch support and are great for pushing hands, IMO.

I practice Qigong sets along with internal martial arts practices I'm not sure the question is phrased optimally. I don't apply the Qigong to my martial practice. The combination of Qigong and the martial practices yield a more well-rounded system, IMO. There are two major methods of using Qigong - one is more 'internal', the other more 'external.' With the 'internal' method, the focus is on breathing and guiding the awareness throught the various postures and anatomic areas while maintaing a feeling of song (relaxed structure) throughout the body. This is the more commonly taught method of Qigong. The 'external' or 'martial' method involves more dynamic muscle contraction throughout the exercises along with different methods of breathing and continued use of the intention to guide awareness. Both are relevant to martial training for a variety of reasons - healing the body, strengthening the body, improving the mind-body connection, imporving pulmonary function and stamina, improving balance, and a host of other benefits.

I had a similar experience only a friend loaned me a set of 12 CDs called Out of Your Mind. They are recordings of his lectures and are fabulous. Listening to him speak is even better than reading his books, IMO.

Nicely stated - another perspective is that Yiquan is less differentiated than Taiji, Xingyi, or Bagua.

Are you speaking of your own translations or a compilation of existing translations?

Good point and well stated Stig! yet another Tale of Power no doubt...

Very cool to hear you describe it thus - that's very accurate. I've been trying to put it into words for my teacher and it's very tough to describe. I was describing it more in terms of a vibration but your visual description is perfect.

I sort of go with what feels right to me. It varies with my situation and physical/mental condition from day to day but generally I am at my peak ~ 5am as far as meditation goes. 3 am would be too disruptive for my daily life.

Not only the best but perhaps the most challenging... The conditioned brain does not want to let go of it's "control" and "understanding" and return to perfection... Beautiful photograph Patrick - is that you?

Not spending more time with my children when they were younger. I'm always, already here. I am the map. What else could I possibly be?

I think the Self has everything to do with everything. Limiting Self to any particular concept or description sort of contradicts the concept. I would cautiously compare Self more with Yuan Qi but even that really goes contrary to the concept of Self as non-dual. Just some words about something that is difficult to discuss directly. One of the things I like about Ramana's verses is that they point to the truth without really trying to categorize, describe, or pigeon hole it. They're very poetic in that sense. I would suggest reading the verses without indulging in the tendency to compare to more familiar or commonly accepted paradigms. Try it, you may like it.

Best wishes for a fruitful and fulfilling future in NYC, Lin! PS There will be a serious CMA competition in New York this fall. Check it out here: http://martialarts.ntdtv.com/en/ I am going to try to come up and compete.