doc benway

I agree with you completely on this point and I understand what you're saying. I also think that with proper instruction and enough time, you come to the same endpoint whether you find the hard in soft (internal) or find the soft in the hard (external). They converge at the highest levels. Internals are focused on the mind/body connection so the mechanics and whole body connection come early, that's why the training is often slow and involves a lot of meditation, whether standing, sitting, or walking. Unfortunately, a lot of people think that soft is all that is necessary. THey're in for a rude awakening. It is a misconception that you defeat the hard with only the soft. You learn to yield to the hard (that in a sense is overcoming the hard with the soft). However, and I think this is critical, you don't defeat the opponent with the soft. There must be the hard to attack and disable or defeat the opponent. I yield to your force and neutralize it, then what? Maybe I'll pluck you with very little force but that will not end a violent conflict. I must attack with great force to disable a skilled opponent. That's why it's so important to develop power, be it through fajin training and neigong and martial qigong or weight lifting or a combination. Effective power doesn't magically appear due to meditation or form practice. It requires training and at least some degree of physical strength. Muscles must contract rapidly and forcefully to transmit the force. THe point I'm trying to emphasize is that Tai Ji Quan (and the other internals) is not soft boxing. Maybe most English speakers would be better off thinking of it as Yin/Yang boxing or even hard/soft boxing. It is balanced, like Yin and Yang. People always call Tai Ji Quan 'Supreme Ultimate Boxing". I think that's a terrible translation. When the native Chinese speaker hears Tai Ji, he does not hear the English equivalent of "Supreme Ultimate." He thinks of the Daoist philosophical principles of yin and yang and wu wei and all that complex concept entails. The words Tai Ji are bursting with meaning. Supreme Ultimate just sounds like 'the greatest thing since swiss cheese" - the translation does a terrible dis-service to the art, IMO. To use Tai Ji principles in real combat, or even a friendly push hands match, requires a balance of force and yielding, hard and soft. Sorry to be so wordy and dogmatic but I can get quite passionate talking about my favorite subject!

Do we know that he never did more strenuous exercise than Tai Ji? It's possible. Is he truly one of "the greatest internal players"? Perhaps - he's certainly one of the most well known since he was one of the first to teach on a wide scale in the US and Taiwan. Some proclaim his martial skill, others suggest that his skill was more in the arts and health arena - I have no idea which is more accurate. For the sake of discussion, let's assume he was one of the greatest, that's one...

I tend to organize my schedule based on what my body tells me. It varies a bit as I don't have enough time to practice everything every day. Here's my approximate schedule: 5-6am seated meditation Followed by: Qi Gong (Gu Chuan Ba Duan Jin or Shi Ba Luo Han) Strengthening training for ji, an, cai, lu Tai Ji form for 40-60 minutes (lately Chen Pan Ling's form) Nei Gong or Zhan Zhuang ~ 20 min If I have extra time I'll add weapons forms. Usually I do the weapons later in the evening at the school. I don't do any weights but I think building muscle tone and bulk can be very helpful as long as it's balanced with stretching and not overdone. I disagree with the statement that the greatest internal players did no hard exercises at all. Most of them were already extremely skilled external artists who later studied internals. Very few of the greats did nothing but soft and we really don't know much about their personal training routines other than legend and hearsay... Our internal program at advanced levels has a fair amount of strengthening exercise utilizing training aids for those serious about martial training, not necessarily weight lifting but strengthening exercises nonetheless. Good luck!

Jade Rabbit - It's great to see you beginning Tai Ji practice. Good luck! It's worth the effort. Here's a perspective I'd like to share, FWIW. The brain's job is to 'understand' things. It takes in info, compares it to memory and knowledge, then creates an image and stores it. At some point, it accepts an image as reality, feels secure that it 'understands' reality as a result and moves on. It does this with everything! You think flower, the image in your brain pops up, and you think you know what flower is. But do you really? Or do you just feel comfortble because you've seen several before and you 'understand' it and know if it's harmful or helpful or neutral, so you know how to deal with 'flower' and you can move on. If it's something new - you aren't secure until you know if it's harmful, helpful, or neutral and so the cycle repeats itself. In practicing Tai Ji, Nei Gong, Qi Gong, Zhan Zhuang (standing meditation), Jing Zuo (sitting meditation) and so forth, your brain will struggle to do the same and that is one of the things that makes it so challenging to persist in practice without giving up, looking for a different practice and so forth. But what if you do 'understand' what's going on? Do you really? Does it matter? Does understanding really help? Is it really meaningful in this area? Can you 'understand' a practice like this after a month or two or ten years? These are experiential practices. You benefit from them by the doing, not so much by the analysis or 'understanding'. The practices are likely to improve your understanding of a lot of things in your life and in the world over time and 'understanding' the practices themselves to a large degree is part of that process and will come in stages over time as well. So I think it's important to find a teacher that you have confidence in and trust that they're guiding you properly. That is critical. The teacher and student, and their relationship, IMO, is more importatn even that the style (provided that it's, at least, a credible style). Give yourself over to the practice for a while (6 months at least, this is a slow process) and let your whole being, mind and body, experience how it changes as you progress. Try not to let the mind trick you with it's 'understanding' because that's really nothing more than a very useful survival skill that keeps us farther from harmful stuff and closer to beneficial stuff. I think all of us would pretty much agree that Tai Ji, Qi Gong, Nei Gong, and meditation practices are helpful when done with a qualified teacher so be comfortable that you are secure in these practices. I hope that helps in some way. Enjoy the journey! Don't get too hung up on the destination, it will be there when you get there. In fact you are already always there, but that's for a different post... Best regards,

Nice photos Lin! You look very dashing. Maybe the dust particles, water particles, and environmental influences that are causing the photo aberrations are actually just that. And just maybe, they are where they are and when they are due to the influences of underlying energetic phenomenon... That is, what causes the dust or droplets to be present there and then as opposed to elsewhere and elsewhen? At some level, it is the result of some energetic phenomenon. It seems to me that the difference between the explanations of 'science' and 'new age' (for lack of a better pair of distinctive words) is the fact that the scientists think they understand the phenomenon as fully as possible through their paradigm and the new agers think that they understand it through a different paradigm. Both are simply images created by human thought used to represent reality. We feel more secure when we can convince ourselves that we 'understand' the phenomenon we experience - this is a very important job of human thought. But all we really do is create a mental image and label it. The image is not the thing! Both paradigms are incomplete and to attach to either is illusion. So what if the aberrations represent energy? Why is that so special? Everything is energy. So what if it's dust and water particles coalescing - aren't dust and water particles miraculous enough for us? Do we really think we undertand dust or water particles simply because we've labeled them and have an image of them?

Hi alfa, Nice post! I think this is an excellent area of inquiry! I agree fully with the doctrine of acceptance. And yet, one still has the opportunity to make choices. In my view, acceptance means to open oneself to experience - visual, auditory, tactile, thought, emotional, and so forth. Not to fight or resist or hide or suppress frightening, embarassing, or painful thoughts and emotions, but to be with them fully without fighting. Not to struggle and fret over bad things that happen but to experience them, accept them, and live fully. Nevertheless, this is not equivalent to being completely passive and doing nothing. It means more to fully understand through opening and then choosing wisely based on personal values. For example, I would not allow a child to drown in a pool because nature put her there. Nature put me there as well, so I will choose to help. I believe that the realization of the futility of struggle and the mindfullness required of meaningful and ongoing acceptance is a transformation by itself for most of us. Action based on values rather than conditioned patterns is further transformation. True and profound acceptance is the ultimate transformation and is essentially immortality.

I disagree. I think it's more a matter of perspective. I think that you're creating some "ideal" Daoist entity in China that perhaps best exists in the minds of those who don't live there. The philosophy and intention may be humanistic yet the implementation and outcome has not been, historically, with any consistency. Similarly, although the superficial and liturgical aspects of Indo-European traditions may be 'anti-human', particularly when corrupted by institutions, the spirit is not necessarily so. I learned this in part from reading Anthony Dimello. He gave me a very different perspective of Catholicism and enlightenment. Hinduism and Zen, in particular are completely and solely human, albeit from a different cultural and sociological perspective. Wonderful and salient post, as always, Mat. Our attachment to Daoism, it's practices and philosophy, it's strengths and achievements, are still just attachments of the mind, nonetheless. Not much different from attachments to people, things, pleasures, pain, and so forth. In fact, philosophical and spiritual attachment is often more intense and subtle and difficult to shrug off! I love the irony of examining our intense attachment to the philosophies that ask us to recognize and let go of all attachment! In my view, there is little separation between the major religious and philosophical traditions when one digs into the core values, principles, and admonitions...

I don't know about different from the rest in that regard... Buddhism is a science as well. I'm not Buddhist but I've had enough in depth discussions with Buddhists and read enough to know that their approach is very scientific in a way quite analogous to Daoism. Although the Buddhists seem to be more concerned with human emotion than the Daoists. Our scientists have accepted this reality since Heisenberg - nearly 100 years... One major difference is that the science of Daoism accepts first hand, 'subjective' experience that is not independently verifiable whereas 'Western science' prefers 'objective' measurements that are as reproducible among multiple observers as possible. I'm not supporting one or the other. I have a foot in each camp. Both have a role in their respective realms. That's a very cool bit of trivia - I didn't know that. Thanks! The whole idea of Daoism being different is an interesting one to explore. Is it really that different? Aren't all religions and philosophies basically the same? They are the action of human thought attempting to investigate and explain that which is beyond comprehension and explanation. All systems are creations of human thought and experience - that's it. Sure, they have different methods and approaches but they are all still limited to the arena of human thought and experience. Why is jing/qi/shen different from prana, tantra, ohm, "who am I", Kabbala and so forth?

19. Only those who have no knowledge of the Source of destiny and free-will dispute as to which of them prevails. They that know the Self as the one Source of destiny and free-will are free from both. Will they again get entangled in them? The first part makes sense - if the self is also the SELF, then destiny and free-will are one and the same because everything has it's source in the SELF. If they are one and the same, what concern is there for them? Will they again get entangled in them? Does this mean - the awareness of the source of destiny and free-will can come and go? Does it refer to rebirth? This is very interesting...

Take Osho's writings with a heaping tablespoon of salt! I personally resonate deeply with his commentaries on Zhuangzi and Liezi but I pay little attention to much else. His sexual practices would be particularly suspect, IMO, due to his history of sexual exploitation of his 'disciples.' He was a very insightful guy who I think fell victim to his celebrity and power, as do many 'gurus.' As a novel, I really enjoyed Daniel Odier's Tantric Quest. I've never practiced so I can't help you beyond that. If you're serious about it you should probably look for a credible guru. Good luck.

Agreed... There seems to be some belief that, once "awakened", suddenly the world is different. I think he is saying that it's more like the perspective is different. Awakened or not, the world is the world. A car will crush your foot, your children will make you cry, food can be delicious. And yet there is the perspective of something beyond, that suffuses and includes everything including the body, the sense of self, and so on, that just makes it feel different. This is why all of the magic, the extraordinairy experiences, the ghosts and spirits, and all that supernatural stuff rings false and empty for me... all of that is just part of the world, our thoughts, hopes, dreams, desires, fears, and so on...

I'm feeling much better, thanks! The worst part of the entire ordeal was a bad reaction to one of the antibiotics... I'm definitely on the mend but can't train hard for ~ 2 months - ARGGHHH! Well, once my mind and body are cleared of the medicines, I'll at least have more time to devote to meditation. Anyway - I think you're exactly right with your comments. All of the major religions point to the unity of self with God. I think Ramana is pointing out the fact that, until there is direct experience of this, there is a slightly more limiting perspective of the self ending at the boundary of the skin and thoughts. Once you have the experience of truly being more than that, not the idea but the experience, then the sense of being the body remains, yet there is an additional dimension of the identification with or experience of the universe sort of experiencing itself through the body. I don't know if that makes it more or less clear. It's hard to put into words but, once you feel it, there's no mistaking it and no going back... I think that one of the primary functions of prayer, meditation, self inquiry, cultivation, and so forth is to create an environment where this sort of experience is more likely to occur.

I use them periodically. Seems to help with the occasionally cramping and stiffness I get in the hands.

Good point... Where does "I" end and everything else begin? At the border of "my" skin? Why would that be? Isn't that just a delusion created by our sensory apparatus? What is there apart from "me"? Is there a world separate and apart from us or are we continuous with it? These questions are more important to "me" than spirits and immortal teachers and dreams of nirvana and everlasting bliss. Max et al's presentation has elicited strong emotions, both pro and con. I said my piece many months ago and don't see any point in fanning the flames, particularly since a lot of people find the practice valuable. After all is said and done, he teaches a method like many others teach methods. A method is a creation of human thought, nothing more - nothing less. All methods are as valuable as the practitioner determines them to be through information and experience. Fortunately, we can pick and choose what methods we wish to spend out time, money, and energy on. Good luck to everyone on whatever path they choose!

There are actually orthopedists out there who evaluate patients and try to help them using any and all means at their disposal, including surgery where necessary. An orthopedist I know quite well employs and utilizes a nutritionist, acupuncturist, massage therapist, physical therapist, occupational therapist, and uses psychological, meditative, and energy techniques with his patients. Orthopedists are PHYSICIANS who have the additional training to allow them to do surgery when non-surgical treatment is not effective. Certainly some are too aggressive, some not aggressive enough, just like any other healer. I would urge people to put aside preconceived notions and give healers of all kinds a chance to help them understand their options, whether they be allopaths, naturopaths, or whatever. This sort of bias against surgeons is quite common and often leads to patients not having the opportunity to explore all available treatment options. Sometimes this can lead to poorer long term results. It's funny that medical doctors and other therapists often feel a need to 'protect' their patients from surgeons. Some surgeons have a similar perspective toward medical docs. There are valid concerns in both arenas... There is no question that there are good and bad healers of all persuasions. It's not only surgeons who can do harm... Peace and love and good luck with your shoulder, Cloud.

Well said steam! I'd like to add to that the additional dimension of quiet mind during slow movement maintaining presence of mind in movment, as in Taiji, Bagua, even Xingyi, and certainly Yi Quan. This is what is meant by finding stillness in movement and movement in stillness, I think. Also, sitting meditation is important as well. There are sitting meditation, standing meditation, and moving meditation - all three critical in internal development in my experience.

I don't study this style but here's some info http://www.iliqchuan.org/

Nice!

"You" can never know because "you" do not exist there... If "you" are there, it is illusion. Just my $.02.

My perspective as a married man with children and a profession and a thirst for physical, intellectual, and spiritual challenge. Personal cultivation is a wonderful thing. It challenges me endlessly on physical, mental, and spiritual levels. I have managed to incorporate them into my busy life. My family has suffered for it to some degree but I like to think they also benefit. I look at having a family as an important part of a fulfilling life for me. Not everyone feels the desire. The joys and heartbreaks of a long term relationship and raising children are infinitely more intense to me than the highest highs or lowest lows of cultivation. I would not have a fraction of my understanding and appreciation for life without being a parent and husband. It has been the source of some of my greatest pain and challenges. On the other hand, it provides the greatest rewards one can dream of. Nevertheless, personal cultivation remains an extremely important part of my life. It gives me an opportunity to be totally selfish and work on myself. It helps to balance me. There is a reason why cultivators go off to live as hermits for serious meditation in Chinese, Japanese, and Indian cultures (not to mention Western culture). Maintaining a very rigorous schedule of training is extremely difficult while living in society and providing for a family. On the other hand, some of these cultures also appreciate the value of experiencing the more "mundane" aspects of life either before or after the cultivation practice.

Taijiquan is much more physically (and mentally) demanding than it looks. Take it slow - the persistent tortoise beats the hare every time!

I bought this book a while ago and haven't gotten around to reading it. Maybe this will give me the motivation I need. First, though, I've got to finish the book I'm currently reading called "What is the What" by David Eggers - an amazing biography about one of the "lost boys" of Sudan - gripping stuff!

The standing practice shows - nice! Four of the eight basic taiji techniques are peng, lu, ji, and an - ward off, rollback, press, push down. One of the practices in pushing hands includes the combination of peng, lu, ji, and an into a continuous moving circle that allows both participants to explore applications of these basic four movements while developing sensitivity, sticking, and so forth. Here's a clip: it's the circling at the beginning.

Thanks for the video links - very nice to see you and your friend. Your central equilibrium is good - do you stand regularly? Do you practice the peng/lu/ji/an circle? Best, Steve