doc benway

Todd, Are you willing to share what it is that you practice and with whom? I am always impressed with your insights and presentation. AHHH! This is a scam! The one who reaches enlightenment first knows that both will enjoy the Coke equally!

This post started as a very brief response and took on a life of it's own - for some reason I am compelled to mention this as a preface... Hmmm, there are things at odds here. I completely agree with your first statement about non-duality. It is not an intellectual idea or conclusion, it is an absolute certainty for me as well. Perhaps we're both deluded, I'm OK with that. The thing that I'm struggling with is this, I'll try to express it. Unfortunately, words always sound so presumptuous, arrogant, rehearsed, artificial but sometimes you've just got to say, fuck it! There is no duality, there is not two. Notice that the Hindus do not say there is one or we are one. They say that there are not two. THis is significant. That which is, is not born, does not die, but is and is not. It is existence and non-existence. It is not two. We, as organic creatures, are encased in a bag of skin and equipped with sensory organs that constantly reinforce a sense of separation from the environment and each other. That separation is constantly reinforced by each of us and our conditioning and social conventions. It starts with early childhood and is very difficult to see through. We are no more separate from the environment than a whirlpool from the stream or a wave from the ocean. We cannot possibly exist without our environment nor does our environment exist without us. Without our miraculous sensory apparatus, the environment is nothing more than various configurations of electromagnetic waves. Everything is not form and substance, not stuff, but relationship. There are no particles of stuff in the universe, only waves. We only perceive stuff and particles due to the particular nature and tuning of our sensory organs. You recognize this, you know this, so how much more awake can you be? It is not a matter of being awake or enlightened or not either. THere is the thought that what is (and is not), is not enough. There is desire that demands more. To transcend the endless cycle of life and death and the joy and suffering. That is human nature combined with conditioning, that is the drive which feeds and clothes us but also makes us suffer. The need to become that which we are not. When there is no longer attachment to the desire to transcend, then there is freedom to simply be. And what a marvelous, miraculous existence it can be, and what a horrible painful existence it can be. One cannot exist without the other. They arise mutually, give meaning and substance to each other. Just as life and death, existence and non-existence arise mutually, they are not two, they are non-dual. When this organism encased in a bag of skin and it's associated knowledge, memories, thoughts, desires, conditioning, etc... dies, then this particular collection of knowledge, memories, etc... is no longer in existence but 'that which is', remains. Another body is born and again is blessed with the spark of consciousness if you will, or awareness, and it then goes on to become conditioned and fills with all the thoughts, memories, and so on, over time because time is thought. And it is conditioned to want and need and try to become that which it is not. And eventually, in some, a spark ignites that wants to transcend everything but it is just a thought, like the one that wants anything else, only it's paticularly persistent because what it wants can never be satisfied until death. It wants to know what lies beyond death, the great mystery, the meaning of life. But nothing lies beyond death. Death is just what is not life. The great mystery is the unanswere question. When answered, it is no longer mystery. But there can never be a state where the human brain and the limited nature of thought (which is simply the action of knowlege and memory, fear and desire) can answer all questions, so there will always be the great mystery. So the desire is there to transcend, so be it. Sit with it and go into it very deeply. Why is it there? What can you learn from it? What is it telling you about you? about everything around? This is why the question unanswered is more important than meditation, I think. Meditation presupposes the answer, the answer is to be found through meditation, why else do it? But the question alone makes no suppositions. It is alive! Answers are dead! Being with the question is very valuable. If you go into that particular desire, to transcend, very deeply, what happens to it? I don't know the answer and I'm not looking for an answer from anyone. It is for each of us to find out for ourselves. If that is what is (and perhaps it's not and I'm totally full of shit - that's OK too), what is it to awaken? What is liberation? Is there a state other than existence and non-existence? Other than that which is? If so, is that not a duality? I say you ARE awake, you ARE enlightened, you just don't recognize it because of conditioning and habit. I'll take a stab at the original question: What is a person? A person is an organic creature that is blessed with self awareness. That self awareness is a blessing and a curse. It is a blessing because it is simply a way in which the universe becomes aware of itself and has an opportunity to revel in it's own mystery and beauty. It is a curse insofar as it is subject to the conditioning of millenia of social convention which causes it to forget it's true nature and leads to profound fear, desire, and suffering.

Brilliant experiment but with a fatal flaw - they should have prepared some sort of safety net to prevent the prolonged hospitalization! Thanks for posting that.

Hmm, don't be so sure... What did the sage say to the idiot? ........ ........ ........ I love you!

Hi Jai! Welcome

Welcome to Tao Bums, Desire. You will find and interesting and ecclectic mix here. Namaste

Hi Sunzi81, Welcome to Tao Bums! I'm not sure if this is the sort of answer you're looking for but I think practicing Taijiquan (Tai Chi) could be useful to you physically, emotionally, and spiritually. It is very useful for developing a balance of the yin and yang forces in the body, mind, and spirit and can be very grounding and stabilizing. I'm sure there are other answers but this is one. Good luck!

Welcome Kenny! Do you have recreational internet access at the temple?

If you are interested in hosting your own personal practice forum, send a PM to Sean and let him know. Good luck and welcome! What type of practice are you involved in?

Here are posts from the book selection thread that were started on this book:

That make's alot of sense regarding the ji4 radical. Reversed breath over fire could also imply something about prenatal breathing and related to culturing the qi. I'll have to track down that book, it sounds good. Thanks for the tip!

Why not? Is there something more important to do?

Pietro, my friend, don't get your panties into a knot please... It's all in fun - I'm hoping none of us gets too worked up over picking a book! Let's enjoy it! Here we are: 1. Dakini's Warm Breath: The Feminine Principle in Tibetan Buddhism by Judith Simmer-Brown 2. To Be Human by Jiddu Krishnamurti 3. Clear Light of Bliss: The Practice of Mahamudra in Vajrayana Buddhism by Kelsang Gyatso 4. Taoism: Growth of a Religion by Isabelle Robinet and Phyllis Brooks 5. Daoist Body Cultivation: Traditional Models And Contemporary Practices by Livia Kohn 6. Revealing the Tao Te Ching: In-depth Commentaries on an Ancient Classic by Hu Xuezhi Let's keep 'em all and sort it out in 2 weeks... Dao Zhen - thanks for the suggestion, it looks like a great book!

That's why I asked if there were any objections... I think it was cat's suggestion, actually. It would be easy enough to keep it as an option although I think it is better to limit the number of options to minimize confusion.

Let's update with Pietro's latest suggestion. I think the point about back to back history books is a good one and I would like to propose that we postpone the Robinet book unless there are objections... 1. Dakini's Warm Breath: The Feminine Principle in Tibetan Buddhism by Judith Simmer-Brown http://www.amazon.com/Dakinis-Warm-Breath-...e/dp/157062920X 2. To Be Human by Jiddu Krishnamurti http://www.amazon.com/Be-Human-Jiddu-Krish...2602&sr=1-1 3. Clear Light of Bliss: The Practice of Mahamudra in Vajrayana Buddhism by Kelsang Gyatso http://www.amazon.com/Clear-Light-Bliss-Ma...8638&sr=1-6 4. Daoist Body Cultivation: Traditional Models And Contemporary Practices by Livia Kohn http://www.amazon.com/Daoist-Body-Cultivat...4304&sr=8-1

Sorry to break thread, but I'll do it with a haiku... You have never heard Om Namaha Shiva 'til Sheila Chandra sings! Here's a tease... http://www.last.fm/music/Sheila+Chandra/_/Om+Namaha+Shiva

Power is a gas And gas certainly power... Solar energy!

Eva Wong's Shambala Guide to Taoism http://www.amazon.com/Shambhala-Guide-Taoi...5575&sr=8-1 is now our new official first book club selection. Sorry for any confusion. We will try to begin discussing it at the beginning of March. I recognize some people may get their books a bit late but we'll have until April to discuss it. I'll post approximate chapter dates. I'll think a bit about how to segregate those discussions. Possibly new threads. We'll see. Here's an approximate layout for when we'll begin discussions by section March 1: Part I - History of Taoism March 10: Part II - Systems of Taoism March 20: Part III - Taoist Practices If you get the book late, just jump in when you can. This was one excellent reason to stick with a relatively basic book.

Very nice story - thank you

I read an excerpt from the following book: http://www.amazon.com/Happy-Child-Changing...7866&sr=8-7 I plan to buy and read the whole thing. THe excerpt was really profound and I'd highly recommend to anyone interested in education (parents, students, educators...)

What would it be like if this forum were to serve as a nidus to help people to feel the spark that causes them to turn the light inside and find their source? What would it be like if that gradually spread, little by little, across the world; liberating tens then hundreds then thousands? Creating a vast revolution or mutation as some have called it, of the mind leading to real and meaningful change! I doubt that I'm the first to have this thought (or even post it) but... How cool would that be?

Nicely put - dispassionate compassion?

Hmmm, looky what I found http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_701705925/ert.html The table may not be ert but you and I may have been here and there in our wilder days...

Impeccable - Generally defined as perfect, flawless but : in- "not" + pecare "to sin" possibly of Indo-European origin therefore - impeccable = incapable of sin or without sin Interesting and makes sense in terms of modern usage. At one time and to some people, perhaps nothing was more important than and certainly nothing more challenging than being free of sin...