doc benway

Cool special effects!! Very nice guys, let's see more.

Very nice post, Stig. I was first exposed to Toltec tradition through Castaneda's work in the late '70's (geeze, geeze... wheeze, wheeze.... ). I reread his ouevre last year. Truth or fiction (much more likely), it is wonderful stuff. Another reason why the tonal is our friend and ally (I'm using this word in the ordinary sense) - it is that which develops and acts on the drive, in some of us, to begin questioning itself and looking for what is beyond. Here's a question: does the drive to experience the nagual (Dao, the Self, God, truth, enlightenment...) originate in the big Self (nagual) or the little self (tonal)?

Stop, don't take a bath It is quite rare and special When touched by The King!

Please notice that I didn't call anyone immature. I just posed a question. I completely agree that there are no sacred cows. In my view, all religions are more or less equally incorrect. All are attempts to use human thought to explain that which is beyond human thought and, therefore, limited and incomplete by definition. It is necessary to get beyond thought to experience reality - all religions (for arguments sake, at least) understand this and approach it in different ways. Stig said it well - it is fine and good to replace the Catholic mythology and method with the Daoist mythology and method and so on - they are more or less interchangeable. Each has it's strengths and weaknesses. So what if Chung, the Immortal didn't like Buddhists? Is that really at all surprising? The nature of religion is divisive. It teaches one group of people that they see things differently from another group when, in fact, they are all exactly the same. Invariably, conflict results. My point is that it does not take too much additional effort to discuss such things in a compassionate and considerate fashion. I have no concern for offending a practice or a religion - they are nothing but words, but I do try and consider the feelings of the person who may currently derive confidence and guidance from the practice. In my opinion, any practice that eschews compassion and consideration of others is lacking - one could say lacking a certain level of maturity. How would the world be if each of us practiced compassion and consideration for others in addition to whatever other practices we favor? When one experiences that the "I" that is asking the question, "Who Am I?" is not an organism limited by a bag of skin but, rather, the whole works coming to be aware of itself in each component, no matter who insignificant, compassion naturally arises => hurting others is no different than hurting oneself. This, I believe, is why Daoists do no believe that specific moral training or theory is necessary. They have experienced that it arises naturally when our true nature is experienced. An interesting question is, does it work the other way? Does the practice of compassion lead to the realization of who is asking the question? Is that the approach of the Buddha?

Lucky day? What pleasure or benefit do you derive from denigrating some of the world's most beautiful and insightful spiritual traditions? Is that the way of the "mature" adept? Does this derive from your chosen path? Introspection and compassion both seem to be lacking in your practice, my friend. I offer this observation with constructive and positive intent, do with it what you will.

Nice post! Be a bit careful how you define 德 (de), however. It is not a simple word to translate into English and I've read some interesting scholarly debate over what the intention of the character is in Dao De Jing.

Sort of like a spiritual Woody Allen...

There are as many types of meditation as there are humans. Meditation means many different things and is really a completely personal experience. Often it is viewed as an exercise of sorts. Others view it as a particular quality achieved by the mind. Some view it as "not doing" and others as neither doing nor not doing. Books: The first book that turned me on to meditation was Breath Sweeps Mind edited by Jean Smith. It's a compilation of brief discussions related to meditation by a variety of authors - most of a Buddhist slant. I loved the book and have been hooked ever since reading it. I was into mindfullness for a long time - Thich Nhat Hanh has some very good writings on this. More recently I was overtaken by the Advaita Vedanta technique of trying to figure out who "I" am... You ask yourself - Who am I? Then, Who is asking the question "Who Am I?", and so on... Each time a thought occurs, you investigate who it is that the thought occurs to. Try and find the source of the "I" thought. That's a good one. Sri Ramana Maharshi's books and Nisargadatta Maharaj's "I Am That" are good resources. Suzuki is a good resource for information on Zen. One particularly good book on meditation is This Light in Oneself: True Meditation by J. Krishnamurti. It's different than most books on meditation in that he was not a believer in methods or practices of any sort. He takes you through an exploration of how to define a quality of mind that is different, new, that goes beyond everyday thought process and knowlege. He uses the socratic method to help you begin to achieve such a quality of mind. His view point grew out of Advaita Vedanta (non-duality) but took on it's own unique approach that really resonates deeply with me. Nothing has helped me along my own path as much as his writings. The irony is that he believed in no teachers, gurus, methods, or practices... Presently, I practice Daoist sitting of the Kunlun Xian Zong tradition - 崑崙仙蹤. The foundation is a practice in which the yi (intention or conscious attention or concentration => my teacher likes to use the phrase: mind of intent) is directed internally and is taken through a variety of "exercises" which serve to "strengthen" the yi and develop a variety of benefits as a consequence. In the beginning one learns how to feel the inside of the body in a new way. It is a sensory perception of sorts but is not sight, sound, touch, taste, or smell. My teacher describes it as being a sense that can be developed through training a part or function of the brain that is not generally active or recruited otherwise. As the student's yi is strengthened and refined it is used for increasingly complex "exercises". One of the reasons I practice this particular method is that it (Daoist sitting methods in general) is particularly well suited to those interested in taijiquan and other internal martial arts. My teacher likes to say that one can only go so far in the internal arts without practicing Daoist meditation. Without it, the core of the art that makes it unique, the development of the relationship between the yi and the physical movement, is absent. I might go so far as to say that the Chinese internal martial arts are a physical expression of Daoist philosophy and cultivation practices, though some would disagree. There are simple, valuable, and relatively harmless methods of practice that one can eaily learn from a book or the web, such as this forum. Mindfullness practice is particularly good for the beginner who might not have access to formal instruction as it is very safe and very effective (but also very challenging to maintain over time). There are other methods that are potentially dangerous and should only be practiced with supervision. Kundalini is a good example of this type of practice and, in my opinion, so are Daoist methods such as the microcosmic orbit and it's variations and more advanced practices. Some very intense emotional, psychological, and occasionally physical side effects are frequent as the student advances and the conscious mind begins to quiet, and can be frightening and occasionally dangerous without experienced guidance. One very simple practice that I really like is about awareness. Sit in a quiet room or area where you will not be disturbed or interrupted by any sudden noises or activity. Avoid this during a storm. Sit comfortably in comfortable clothes or unclothed. Little by little, open up your senses to the world around you. Start with seeing what is in your line of vision. See everything but focus on nothing in particular. Or close your eyes if you prefer. Next add the sense of hearing, hear everything from your own heartbeat to the music coming from the apartment next door, to the siren a mile away, and so on. Hear everything but attend to nothing. Next explore how your mouth tastes, then how the air smells, then your tactile senations. How does the chair feel against your bottom, the floor under your feet, your tongue in the mouth, and so on. Completely surrender yourself to sensory perception - everything. Be totally with it. Be totally yin - take everything in. If thoughts crop up, don't worry about it, just bring your attention back to the amazing variety of sensory experiences that surround you. Do this for as long as you choose. I find it particularly useful when I'm not feeling well or I'm stressed or upset. It instantly brings me back in touch with myself and grounds me. It's exciting to begin exploring the subject of meditation. More than likely, it'll change your outlook forever...

He was very insightful and corrupt. He was the first person that helped me to understand Daoism through his commentary on Zhuang zi and Lie zi. When the Shoe Fits remains one of my favorite books.

Chasing hummingbirds Today my son - twenty one! Time to chase the moon...

Very cool concept! Thanks for sharing that good news about the twins (and the bad news about Howard's daddy!)

OK, let's begin to get some suggestions for what to read in March for discussion in April. We've had one suggestion already - Clear Light of Bliss: The Practice of Mahamudra in Vajrayana Buddhism by Kelsang Gyatso http://www.amazon.com/Clear-Light-Bliss-Ma...8638&sr=1-6 I will add one of my own: To Be Human by Jiddu Krishnamurti Krishnamurti was a very famous speaker in the mid and late 20th century whose focus was for each of us, as individuals, to find our own path to the truth by, essentially, learning to understand our thought process and thereby discovering where our sense of individuality comes from. His roots are in Vedanta Advaita but he broke from all traditions and methods and emphasized the importance of finding one's own truth. Since we've briefly touched on his work recently in another thread I thought it might be timely to suggest this one. http://www.amazon.com/Be-Human-Jiddu-Krish...8535&sr=8-1

Based on the results of the poll, we will try reading a new book every two months. Since that will change the dates, I will start a new topic with the correct dates and close this topic to prevent confusion. Sorry for any inconvenience. I'm mainly interested in preventing confusion among people coming to this for this first time. I will carry over the specific recommendations to the new thread. Thanks for your patience - I'm new at this moderating stuff...

Concern has been raised regarding the reading of a new book each month. It may be too frequent to allow for thorough discussion. I think this is a valid point and would be happy to decrease the frequency to bimonthly or quarterly. Personally, I think we could handle one a month but it wouldn't hurt to start out more slowly. Please participate in this poll so that our decision represents as many members as possible. thanks Pietro for raising the question and everyone for participating,

At least for a starting point, we will use the results of the poll and discuss a new book every other month. Thanks to everyone who participated in the poll.

I just used it OK... Awareness is well worth the investment...

Excellent book!

HAH! Your master has to breathe on them!? My master only has to use the yi !!!

What would it be like if our entire membership could remain mindful of these words? I am committed to this attitude from this moment forward!

Your first statement needs careful consideration. What is the definition of "taoist practice"? If you are referring to a specific cultivation technique (MCO and beyond, neigong, and related practices) then I would argue that all require imagination of some sort initially. Visualization perhaps but it's definitely more than just visualization. It's a degree of imagination that is very detailed, specific, and pseudo-scientific (I mean that in the sense of organized, progressive, reproducible from a subjective perspective). Now, if by "taoist practice" you mean praying to gods, lighting incense, exorcism, diet, holidays - that is also imagination and visualization. Now, if you mean philosophical "taoist practice" - I don't know if that really exists in a definable way that we can all agree upon. I know what I consider that to be but we might not all agree. But if we could, would that not also require an imagination to approach it the first time? It's only later, after the practice is established. Then it is certainly better to experience than to visualize or imagine. Then the thought process can be let go perhaps. But the imagination has to get you to that point, I think. Perhaps it's more accurate to say, it helped me get started.

Couldn't stop watching this clip. I almost never watch more than a few minutes of any clip. Inspirational!

Forums are fun! I love you all!

I'm going to speak of faith in the sense of religious faith - a belief in something in the absence of or contrary to available proof. I am not speaking of confidence or love. This type of faith to me is a weakness. It's a desire to follow an authority in the absence of knowing. A need to believe in something gratuitously, with no possibility of verification. An unwillingness to question or doubt. Faith is something used by those with authority to exploit others. It is a mechanism by which people can be manipulated. I try not to believe in things. If I can know something, there is no need for belief. If I cannot know something, belief is superfluous and is usually of little value. I'd prefer to know or remain agnostic and doubt, until the opportunity to know arises. If you investigate the process of thought very deeply and patiently over time, most things can be know and there is little need or benefit for faith and belief. Just my limited view... I don't intend to offend or insult any one.

It sounds as if you expected something to change - why?

If you are referring to "Who am I?" and so on, from Buddy's original post - that line of questioning is the central method in Advaita Vedanta - a part of Hinduism actually, not Buddhism. Buddhism arose from Hinduism but took the inquiry in a different direction for the most part. Furthermore, anyone with any real interest in true spirituality and awakening must face those very questions at some point in their development... That is the point where a teacher or guru is no longer of any value. These are questions only the individual can answer through persistent investigation. These questions completely took me over after practicing Dao cultivation for about 3 years. In fact, I put my practice on hold for a while. Once I dealt with these questions satisfactorily, I got back to the cultivation regimen but it took a while and a lot of work. Camus wrote that whether or not to commit suicide is the only true philosophical question. I believe that "Who am I?" is the only true spiritual/philosophical question because "I" ask all the other questions, including - should I commit suicide?