doc benway

As the great Grouch Marx once said, "I'm not crazy about reality duality, but it's still the only place to get a decent meal."

Hope you feel better soon @Apech Just spoke to both my parents who are a few days in. They’re both doing well but exhausted and a bit miserable.

I appreciate you asking @dawn90! It feels turquoise blue and joyful at the moment, flecked and streaked with gold. The day was smooth and productive and I'm resting in my yard with birdsong and canine companions... partially listening to a virtual business meeting that holds very little interest for me... You?

I appreciate your point and I'll also offer that we're discussing this topic in a thread with the title - "Difference between dualism and non-dualism" on a forum devoted to spiritual discussion among people voluntarily participating. Questions, answers, challenges, and counters are being traded back and forth specifically on this topic by some with experience in the nondual perspective and related practices and others who have less experience or even deny its validity altogether. Certainly one "side" or other or any individual can drop out of the conversation at any point by focusing on other threads...

As with anything related to attaching words to the ineffable, my answer is yes and no. And while the question may have been a bit tongue in cheek, it brings up some things for me. Fundamentalism as defined by Oxford is "relating to or advocating the strict, literal interpretation of scripture." Dzogchenpas revere the ancient tantras and use them as a guidepost and beacon to inform and check progress and practice. All teachings must be exactly as handed down, nothing is added or subtracted, at least in the Bön tradition. They also defer to the most learned and respected among the elders to explain and clarify meanings and metaphors, and this includes monastics and lay-practitioners alike. In this sense all dzogchen lineage holders and practitioners are fundamentalists. There is an important caveat however which is that there is no belief or "interpretation of scripture" to define anything conceptual or related to knowledge or understanding associated with these teachings. They are exclusively practice manuals, descriptions, and metaphors which serve simply to reveal the continuity of the mind with its most fundamental essence through personal practice. Wherever there is uncertainty regarding the intention of the teachings, eg if some particular detail is not specified, then we see creativity and flexibility among teachers and practitioners, not someone trying establish one interpretation over another but rather embracing whatever shows its value through how well it supports the practitioner. Multiple ways exist and practitioners are allowed to be flexible in their own practice and approach. In this sense I would say fundamentalism really cannot apply where belief is irrelevant and interpretation is flexible when appropriate. Each individual discovers the foundation of their own mind and experience directly, no interpretation, no belief involved.

Not necessarily the case. A good teacher will use whatever is needed and sometimes that can be quite extreme. Interesting stories about such things abound, particularly in Tibetan and Zen traditions. That said I do agree we need to be a bit mindful and gentle with each other on this topic because the process can be traumatic and/or destabilizing.

This was precisely how it felt for me when it hit. I laughed for days. I happened to be on vacation with my family at the time and they seemed to get a little concerned about my sanity so I had to consciously reign it in…

This has also been my experience, thank you for bringing this up. I recently completed a multiyear program in which I got to practice with and share experiences with a group of practitioners. It was one of the most profound and valuable experiences of my life. People connected very deeply inside themselves and powerful things came up allowing us to connect to each other through the shared experiences. The courage, vulnerability, and generosity were inspiring. As you say the authenticity and rawness were there for all of us. I learned so much about myself through the others and learned just how valuable and wonderful each and every one of us are. It was an amazing experience.

You are conflating 'nonduality' with imperfect human beings walking their path and sharing their perspectives, which I am finding quite beautiful and inspiring BTW... deep bows to all who have shared their experiences... Your beliefs and mental constructs of nonduality are not it. The failures you perceive are humans dancing their dances. It's OK to be afraid and it's even OK to be smug. It's OK to cling too. We do what we can and I suggest showing ourselves some kindness sometimes. And it's also good to continue practice in whatever fashion works for you. A nondual approach is probably the only method to accomplish this... certainly the most expedient by a mile. This is why the Buddhists say the sutric approach takes very many lifetimes, the tantrikas take several, and the dzogchenpas have a shot in this very life! I could see that...

I was a bit incredulous reading this statement and decided to challenge/clarify if you were being serious: You apparently felt you were being gaslighted: I pointed out that was a projection, I did not intend to gaslight you: In accusing me of gaslighting, I actually felt as if you were gaslighting me! I think it's so easy and frequent to misunderstand each other or misread intent. Especially in a digital medium but really in ALL situations. We have limited information and have no choice but to fill in the gaps, we are always projecting. That is the way the brain works in fact - it filters a lot and fills in a lot.

Case in point

How sure do you feel about that? In a sense, everything is a projection.

I’ve encountered some wonderful people at Bön retreats and some people who are in a lot of pain and looking for help. There can be some big egos and some tiny ones. Some are a bit eccentric, not unlike this community. Overall I find sanghas to be a microcosm of humanity though skewed towards people actively looking to help or improve themselves and grow. The genuine and dedicated practitioners do tend to be very open, loving, and powerful people though they also tend to be quiet and rarely in the spotlight. I suggest that what we think we know about others is more a projection of our own assumptions and expectations than anything related to who they really are (speaking here in a relative sense). I also suggest that we sometimes overlook the Two Truths doctrine in our discussions about nonduality here. The absolute perspective is very real for those who have access. The relative perspective is no less real for those who do not. Both are valid and deserving of respect and acknowledgement. We have no choice but to live and work with what we can access. Highly advisable to keep an open mind as this can change at any time.

I used to be partial to sarongs, easily transformed from loincloth to kilt-like garment as desired. Got used to them when performing in a Balinese gamelan, very comfy in warm weather. The dzogchen teachings say yes, though others have consistently challenged their claims in Buddhism and other traditions. Arguably there is no more effective or expeditious method, provided we have a karmic connection to the teachings and lineage.

Next you’ll be telling us we’re too nondual to use the little Bums room. In which case we’d say we use All the bathrooms!

Sorry, you don’t get to define our pronouns. Get with it ralis! 😘

If you tried to do that with cut/paste it will not work in the first post of a thread. You would have to copy, then paste into a spoiler box, then delete the redundant info. This is because first posts in a thread cannot be empty or deleted. You may want to give that a try.

@Giles Your editing permissions in Current Events do not appear to have any restrictions. I believe the software has some inherent limitations when it comes to editing the initial post in a thread. There are differences between editing the OP and subsequent replies. If you want more specifics, please PM me with more detail on what changes you were trying to make to the OP.

... or adventure?!

Really wonderful…. Cannabums take note! https://watch.amazon.com/detail?gti=amzn1.dv.gti.4193a146-eb57-4fdd-bb2a-d8fdce4ee83e&territory=US&ref_=share_ios_movie&r=web

My favorite is Odilon Redon blue.

Good question! I will sit with that for a while. The immediate answer is I do it whenever I feel so inspired. Sometimes it’s an image or a mood or an insight or intention. This latest was that I wanted to use a yellow RAM syllable. It’s a purification, the seed syllable of fire. I may make one but haven’t yet. I couldn’t find an image online but came across this beautiful blue HUNG and use it as an intention to connect to the space in my heart when interacting with others here.

The answer is a jiffy. The question is what is 1/100 of a second. I guess we can stop now.