steve

going about your daily business. becomes walking around the center green dragon twisting tail

One of my favorite modern parables is Anthony Demello's parable about Jesus, or someone like him... "A man invents the art of making fire and travels to cold, snow-covered regions where hill tribes shiver in the bitter cold. He teaches them how to make fire, showing them its benefits—staying warm, cooking food, building shelters. The people learn eagerly and are deeply grateful. But before they can thank him, he quietly slips away, uninterested in recognition or praise, embodying the nature of true greatness. He moves to another tribe and teaches them the same skill. His popularity grows, alarming the local priests who fear losing their influence. They poison him. When suspicion arises, the priests act swiftly to protect themselves. They place a portrait of the Great Inventor on the temple altar and create a liturgy to honor his name. The tools he used to make fire are enshrined in a sacred casket, believed to heal those who touch them with faith. The High Priest writes a biography of the Inventor, which becomes a Holy Book—celebrating his love, glorifying his deeds, and declaring his divine nature as a core article of faith. The priests ensure the Book is passed down through generations, interpreting its meaning authoritatively and punishing any deviation with excommunication or death. Over time, the rituals, worship, and veneration are meticulously preserved for decades, then centuries. Yet, despite all the reverence, there is no fire. The people have forgotten how to make it. They have ritual, gratitude, and devotion—but no transformation. Prayer is not a symbol of fire—it is fire itself, meaning inner transformation through awareness. If worship doesn’t lead to love, if liturgy doesn’t bring clearer perception, if God doesn’t lead to life, then religion is useless—breeding only division and fanaticism. The world doesn’t lack religion; it lacks love and awareness. True spirituality is not about rituals, but about awakening to reality, seeing through illusions, and allowing the fire of awareness to change your being."

To think that the supreme creator of all things, or some higher or lower power, could do no better than the writings of the various extant and extinct religious traditions, their moral failings, farcical inaccuracies, and biases, is sort of comical IMO. No personal attack intended Haribol, my apologies if you take any offense. In my opinion, scriptures are the product of the human mind. I think the more interesting question is what are the origins and factors that influence human creativity, insight, and imagination?

I thought it was cool!

I think ChiDragon has a future in US politics...

I will conclude the answer to my question is no, you have not studied neidan with a teacher. Thank you for sharing your personal conclusions on neidan, all perspectives have value to me.

Hi @ChiDragon, I have a genuine question for you. I don't mean any disrespect but your answer will help me understand your positions related to neidan. I believe you've posted here that you have studied taijiquan with a teacher at some point. My questions is, have you ever studied neidan or other forms of neigong (other than taijiquan) with a teacher? If so, can you share what system or lineage? I'm trying to understand where the "original Taoist method of Neidan" is coming from. Thank you

Temporarily

Not if you’ve mastered fetal breathing! 😉

I got cake, weed, and arrested! 🤣

This would definitely add to the quality of discussion. It may also encourage more detailed sharing. That would be fun.

I had the same experience. Our instruction in nearly all practices was to allow the breath to breath itself naturally, no modification or control involved. That said, changes in the breath do occur over time as one continues to practice.

In my experience they can be intentional, spontaneous, or a combination of both. Although my spontaneous mode of breathing is primarily abdominal. How about you?

Yes, for sure when reading this sort of information we can feel provoked or offended and react accordingly. Alternatively, we can consider it simply as entertainment rather than education and leave it be. That has become my approach, when possible. It's just not worth the effort and energy required to argue, knowing rational discussion will not change certain people's opinions. If we are coming here or use AI to learn about how to practice neidan, we have already lost, IMO. On the other hand, we can learn something about ourselves and our ideas when confronted with opposing ideas, no matter how ridiculous or far-fetched they may seem. I think there is some degree of truth and wisdom in bringing neidan and Daoist concepts down to Earth and into our own lived experience, something ChiDragon's perspective can remind us of. Is every neidan text and teaching simply asking us to sit quietly and breath intentionally? Of course not. Having had a dozen years of instruction and correction from a credible teacher, I have my own opinions and understanding, but I do think that many people tend to create mystery and distance between themselves and their views and practice, particularly in Daoist practices and in Chinese internal martial arts.

I don't think that is accurate. Breathing is a bodily functions that can occur with or without intention, attention, or engagement of any sort. Breathing occurs naturally and spontaneously, even in deep sleep or when unconscious. Intention can be used to override reflexive breathing but is not required.

Someone very close to me is a Satanist and an active member of The Satanic Temple. He is one of the more authentic and compassionate people I know. https://thesatanictemple.com/

Merry Christmas to all of my Christian friends! May the holiday spirit bring unconditional joy, good health, and peace into your lives. And may we come closer in the coming year to a life of peace and mutual understanding.

More your ideas, interpretations, and the tenor of your presentation, not you personally for the most part I think. You have your interpretation and ideas, others may hold different ones. When it comes to this type of material, some have a great deal invested. It is not surprising people get reactive when told they are completely wrong, especially when the subject matter is close to their heart, and it works in both directions. I think disagreement is healthy and can lead to deeper understanding if everyone can interact with respect.

Because they love music too! Like the Dao, music is universal.

Yes, this certainly carries over to the main subject of the video linked above, xuan guan. While I do not disagree with his points and feel no need to challenge or debate, my Daoist teacher taught xuan guan as a very specific and precise location that was an important part of our meditation practice. Actualizing that point in practice had effects which proved for me, and fellow students, to be related to ‘non-local’ effects referred to in the video.

The fellow that made the video on xuan guan does a nice job discussing xing and ming and their cultivation in this and other videos.

Thank you for making that last point. Just because we had to invent the idea of dark matter to account for observations that our present theoretical framework cannot explain, does not mean dark matter actually exists. it may simply be that our theoretical framework is missing something important. That said there is some recent evidence that may further strengthen the idea of the existence of dark matter. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2025/11/251129053349.htm

IMO, an accurate definition of Qi is certainly not the English word energy, particularly as that word is loosely used in non-scientific contexts. Qi is far more fundamental and relational/contextual than what is meant by the English word energy, even ATP related energy, and IMO the idea of storing, building, and blocking Qi, even the idea of feeling Qi can be very misleading, even an obstacle. My Daoist teacher, who was Chinese, was just like you describe - not overly concerned with things like translations and definitions of words and concepts. For him, any time we spent reading and studying concepts was wasted time we could have devoted to experiential practice. What makes you say "nobody is familiar with" ATP energy? It is a very basic concept in biochemistry and I suspect many of us here are quite familiar with it. There was a time that I had it memorized down to each chemical formula but I let that go about 40 years ago. While I do understand and appreciate your point related to the important association between "ATP energy" and Qi, I would disagree with defining Qi solely as energy, even that generated through the TCA cycle. I think that is too reductive and does not account for the many different contextual associations with 氣 or 炁 both in neidan and more general usage.

I was simply quoting Cobie. My agreement referred to my experience that as we get deeper and closer to what it means to be human, the fewer differences we are likely to find among ourselves. This can be seen on multiple levels - physical, emotional, psychological, energetic, metaphysical, etc...

I agree there is no difference at the core. There are meaningful differences on the way there, such as in language construction and conceptualization, not to mention cultural context. At least that’s been my experience. This is one reason why it’s so helpful to have friends who are native speakers when learning the language.