doc benway

Derail alert - I think it's useful to think about spirituality in 3 categories somewhat parallel to martial arts - - theory (like in the gym we learn the techniques and concepts, both theoretical and practical) - on the cushion (like in the ring we face an opponent, our own mind, but under fixed circumstances) - in real life (like on the street we face an opponent, our own mind, under unpredictable and variable circumstances)

May your fetus be immortal!

There's a lot of similarity in martial discussions and spiritual discussions viz a viz experience, ideas, and bluster...

So much fun to see things that exceed rational limits - it tickles. Magic is everywhere, always.

They’re 3 levels to how techniques look - gym, ring, and street getting progressively less recognizable. It’s like that with any style.

No more or less than with other martial arts. The situation dictates the application and nothing on the street looks quite like the ring or the dojo. Looks and effectiveness are not necessarily related, IME. I recall a world champion fighter in Kuoshu Lei Tai whose techniques looked like crap but he could knock folks out and throw them off the lei tai like nobody’s business. Couldn’t deal with a decent wrestler though (my son 😎). In my mind, the style is less important than the quality and dedication of the student and teacher and the training methods.

I have to offer a bit of disagreement with this. I’m an advocate of traditional martial arts for many reasons. I also have a lot of respect for MMA training and techniques. While not all MMA methods are street effective, many are. Grappling can be extremely effective, as can the elements of muay thai and boxing that have been embraced in MMA.

That’s just the clock mechanism or whatever arbitrary standard we set. Defining time is tricky and relative, at least for me.

And as a result of the passage of time!

How do you know that? My own experience of the passage of time changes frequently and dramatically.

When I look at my own experience, what I find is multiple adjacent blocks of activity of the mind, linked by this concept of time. These blocks are periods of disconnection from the present moment, whether by thought, perceptual experience, emotion, concentration, whatever; linked together by awareness of the changes that occurred during such periods. These changes can be measured by counting in a steady fashion, which is time. Formal meditation practice highlights this pattern and allows us to dissect it and change our relationship to it. In my tradition of meditation we cultivate the ability to maintain connection to the present moment in a smooth, continuous fashion. There is often discussion about the role of thinking and not thinking during meditation. In my most stable and unbounded experiences of meditation, the common thread seems to be not whether thought is present or absent but whether awareness is smooth and continuously connected to the present moment irrespective of thought as it comes and goes. That is, the thoughts may be there or not, attention to sensory stimuli may be there or not, but whatever arises does not lead to discontinuity of awareness. As this skill develops, all sorts of things in my experience change profoundly - the very sense of time, space, solidity, self, other, etc... I don't mean to suggest any authoritative statements about what meditation and time are or how they are related, just sharing experience of my practice. I read part of the book you reference some years ago. A copy was in the library at the retreat center I frequent (pre Covid of course). Wonderful book, perhaps I need to finish it someday.

I also like to think about time. I’ve come to feel that time is not something that moves. Rather time is an overlay, a way of expressing and measuring the movement we experience in our bodies, mind, and environment. I share the challenge to time “moving” in one direction. I suspect the directionality of time relates to our unique human condition, not to the nature of time itself. There’s an interesting though challenging book that touches on this called Time’s Arrow and Archimedes Point by Huw Price, recommended.

I disagree - one is offering an impersonal resource, the other is personally diagnosing a specific condition then offering the cure, for a price. Huge difference in my mind.

Thanks for you response, just a few things I’d like to reply to... I agree that plaques and diplomas mean little but at least indicate an interest in study and knowledge. There are powerful, born healers who need no training and well- trained folks who are inept. My feeing is that if someone chooses to solicit clients here or simply offer help, they should share their qualifications, whether they have formal training and certifications or not. Perhaps we should require that our “healers” here maintain a list of their services, background, and qualifications in a PPD or “healing sub-forum.” Just an idea to consider. I think it is one thing to make casual comments about what others post here as a member and a different thing to claim to be a professional healer and share your read on someone without their consent. Once we claim to be professional healers here, we assume a degree of authority and responsibility. From that point on we establish ourselves as something other than a casual commentator. Force is sometimes necessary, no doubt. There are a limitless array of forces and ways we can use them. The issue that got my attention is the suggestion you’re going to forcefully open someone energetically after reading one or two of their posts online that offered very little specific info. It would be different if you had a private session together and felt force was the only option. Anyway, I do appreciate the discussion. It gives the mods things to ponder.

Your questions are excellent and important ones and I don't think we would all agree on the answers, if indeed there are any objective and clear answers. I'm happy to share my personal perspective, FWIW. Can people detect the state of your energy by reading text online? I think it is possible to get a sense of someone's energetic state by reading what they write, as well as reading what they do not write. I'm certain you can do it yourself to a degree whether you realize it or not. Most of us have the ability to feel something in ourselves when interacting with others, whether in person or virtually, that indicate something about the other's state. How accurate that is depends on our sensitivity, our experience, our own energetic state in any given moment, and countless other variables. An important part of reading others' energy is knowing how much of what we feel is actually coming from ourselves and why the other is bringing that out in us. So much of what we attribute to others, to the outside world, is actually something residing or happening in us. (Arguably, all of what we attribute to others and to the outside world is actually coming from us, but that's for another discussion.) And if this is indeed possible, can a person remotely heal these sorts of conditions just like that? In my opinion that depends more on the one looking for healing than on the one "doing" the healing. It is a cooperative and collaborative endeavor and I feel it is possible under the right circumstances. Does it somehow require consent? Absolutely, consent is a requirement. Not only here at TaoBums but in general, regarding energetic healing. It is important to be aware, however, that not everyone is capable of giving consent or withholding consent depending on their condition. It is the obligation of the "healer" to know this and carefully assess the one in need of healing. The one in need is not always in a position to know for themselves and are thus vulnerable. And, on the other hand, if a person wished to inflict harm and damage my energy or place a seal or curse, could it be done also just because they see a post online? That also depends on on the object of such practices. If one is vulnerable I would say yes, they could be victimized by unethical practitioners. If one has healthy boundaries and self-awareness, I would say it is very unlikely that anyone could take advantage in that way. I think the single most important way to address this is through self-awareness. Any random stranger online can read your posts and tell you they think something is wrong that they can fix for money or otherwise. The important thing is to simply use this information to look at yourself carefully - - do I feel out of balance? - do I feel blocked or sealed? - is what they are telling me consistent with my own experience? Just because someone says they see or feel something in you does not mean it is true. So much of what people see or feel in others is their own projection. A big part of spiritual cultivation is finding our own truth and developing certainty and confidence in that. If you are feeling problems and see evidence of it in your life, then you have the opportunity to look at the reasons and the solutions. There are many approaches to dealing with such blockages, too many to go into here. The important thing is to find a method that resonates with you, one that makes sense and feels right. Equally important to look at the credentials of the person offering help. What is their background? What is their training and credentials? How much experience do they have? How do they come off to you - kind, cautious, compassionate or arrogant, demeaning, and predatory? We need to look at these things when selecting both a healer or a teacher. As a fellow "beginner" you are asking the right questions and I wish you good fortune on your path.

Hi RiverSnake, I'll offer my perspective as a member, as a professional healer, and as a moderator. First I'll compliment you on your openness to the moderators' criticism and concerns as well as to opening this thread to discuss this subject rationally. Since you seem to be surprised and unclear on why you've been "lambasted" and "threatened," I will explain from my perspective. I have some concerns not with your desire to help but with how you presented your services and treated newcomers here. You offered unsolicited opinions and recommendations publicly to new members in the welcome area. These folks are unfamiliar with the board, unfamiliar with the members, and don't know what to expect from our community. I for one don't want the first thing a new member experiences here to be an unsolicited "energy read" and offer to fix them for money. You provided no credentials, no background, no indication of your methods, no evidence of any experience in dealing with these things. You began your interaction with one member with a personal insult and then suggested it necessary to use "force" to correct their energetic problems. These actions do not appear to me as actions of a professional. There is no rule prohibiting members from offering help to others but your approach here raises deep concerns. It is one thing to offer information on systems, DVDs, and practice methods, be they paid or free. Interested parties may access and use them or ignore them as they wish. It is something else to hang out where new members are welcomed, read their energy and share your opinions about their weaknesses or challenges publicly, for all to see and comment on, without their consent. On top of that you offer to fix them for money yet I see no evidence that you have any qualifications to do so. I am not surprised or disturbed to see people interested in helping others here. I am surprised to see a professional healer calling out someone's problem publicly without being asked and offering to fix them "forcefully" and for money. As a professional healer myself, I do not publicly share my opinions on the problems of others and the solutions to those problems publicly and without their request and permission. When I do share my opinions of someone's difficulties, I share with them privately and in a concerned and cautious fashion, not in a spirit of whimsy and playfulness. Of course playfulness is important in our lives but must be expressed very carefully in the context of diagnosing and treating others' problems and vulnerabilities. In summary, I have no specific problem with QUALIFIED individuals offering their services to those ASKING for help and doing so in a RESPECTFUL and DISCRETE manner. I do have a problem with name calling (eg. stupid), assessing or manipulating others energetically without their consent, sharing that information publicly without their consent, and doing so in an area of the forum that is set up to welcome newcomers, help them get adjusted to our community, and make them feel comfortable. I hope this gives you a sense of why you've gotten the attention of the moderators for your recent actions.

Beautifully said _/\_ I used to use a small phrase in my sig here attributed to Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj. It very much summarizes the spiritual path for me: “Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.”

I am warning a new member here to avoid paying money to anonymous strangers who offer questionable services or products. If "con artist" is what comes up for you when reading my words that is for you to assess. All I know for sure is that you are asking for money and providing no evidence that you offer anything of value.

I suspect it's because we associate the Himalayas with Tibetan Buddhism, a community that defines itself by its spiritual and religious identity. They focus on this spirituality because they are unfamiliar with the more mundane, political, and negative characteristics that can be found in the community. Also because their spokesperson and leader is a very public and vocal voice of compassion and wisdom. Perhaps because we are familiar with the politics and hypocrisy of the church down the street, less so with that of the Zen monastery. When we learn of pedophilia or other forms of abuse in a monastery, the spiritual mystique tends to dissolve. I define spirituality as the very personal and individual process of looking inward and investigating who and what I am, why I do what I do, and how those choices affect myself and others.

Particularly when they ask for money...

A great place to begin is standing meditation - zhan zhuang. It is a great support for taijiquan practice.

Also, what it is made of. And in turn, what “I” am made of.

Good choice. I’ve learned several qigong forms and the one that I’ve stuck with long term has been Ba Duan Jin.

I don’t know if this will help but I’ve come to the conclusion that what is verifiable is my own life experience and what makes sense to me in that context. I don’t simply accept any paradigm as the truth. I don’t “believe.” Buddhism (or in my case Bön) does not tell me “the way it is.” It will if I want it to but Buddhism does not require belief. Buddha said not to simply accept any of it on his word. We need to do the work ourselves and find the “way it is” for ourselves through practice. I don’t buy into all of the wide variety of explanations and concepts and precepts of Bön that I don’t understand or feel a connection to. I buy into what works and makes sense for me. I respect what doesn’t and remain open to the possibility that I may understand more thoroughly in the future, or not. It’s fine either way. What I do accept is how to do specific practices and then I decide whether it is working for me or not. Granted, it takes a fair amount of time, commitment, and skillful guidance to make sure I’m practicing correctly and giving the method a chance to work. I think this applies to Buddhism, Daoism, and any other path. Good luck in your search.

Well said, your description really resonates with me. Trying to understand emptiness is frustrating. When it hits experientially it’s indeed magical. Important not to get too attached to that either, that’s been a tricky obstacle for me.