doc benway

Something mellow...

When the goal or any effort is there, look directly at who is looking to accomplish something. Not word play at all. Cut right through and rest. Aaaaaaaahhh Phet! Spaciousness is the ultimate rock (ewww, sorry) 🤣

And that learning is nothing more than a habit, a reflex. We let go of those learned reflexes as well... A.... ..... .... Phet! 😆

I’ve been reading some of Thomas and a Kingdom of God for Buddha Nature reading is certainly effortless and consistent.

As did you... We’re pointing in a similar direction.

Definitely I was referring to rainbow body and its relationship to the deeper, unfabricated, primordial Self

Good news, it's not something one can develop... Anymore than one can develop Self

“After Self-realization, what else needs to be done?” Everything

Happy Thanksgiving to all of my DB friends and folks. It’s bittersweet being a moderator. I feel a sense of loss for many who aren’t here and gratitude for those who are. I look forward to continuing to weather the storm of samsara with all of you . With love and appreciation ❤️🙏🏽❤️

I’m getting it too but not sure why. Will investigate... TBC

Berlin got very mixed reviews and wasn’t performed for 30 years. I always loved it... It’s free to stream right now https://stannswarehouse.org/berlin-streaming-page/

If you think twice about your own posts, you can always edit them. Once others reply, we don't feel it's appropriate for you to be able to hide their replies.

Yeah, this sounds whiny but it contains a good point. I have a colleague and friend who complains about a lot of things, very regularly. He says it helps him let off steam. But everyone else can see clearly that it's more like an endless loop that feeds on itself and grows more and more solid and real for him. The steam doesn't release, it builds. And it annoys the people around him (especially people that can't accept things very easily... ). He complains but doesn't change, doesn't offer solutions, doesn't act, and doesn't let it go. So I'd maybe add... 'To complain is always non-acceptance of what is. Get off your ass and do something or give it a rest already...' Complaining really doesn't have much value, it's just verbalized pain. Best to accept that what is happening is happening, like it or not, and do something... or not...

I appreciate that explanation.. Justifying atrocity, depression, or hedonism with ideas like karma doesn’t mean much to me either. I’m talking mainly about practical, personal application. Acknowledging, not distorting, holding onto, or rejecting whatever is there in the moment. That’s basically it. And not getting in the way of whatever needs to happen.

I have to disagree. When this elusive idea and practice of acceptance is understood and skillfully engaged, there is nothing more powerful. Think of Gandhi's quote - "You can chain me, you can torture me, you can even destroy this body, but you will never imprison my mind.' I think the dispute we see here is related to whether we are applying this idea of "acceptance" to what we are thinking and feeling in ourselves vs to external visions and circumstances and what is meant by acceptance in this context. The way towards understanding what is meant by this teaching is through the former, working with our inner world of experience as it arises for us just as Bindi mentioned earlier. Once we have experience and stability with that, it naturally extends to external matters. Once again, it does not mean that we do not change things. It does not mean that we tolerate or force approval of anything. It means that the response, if any is needed, comes naturally and spontaneously from a place of clear vision, unimpeded by conflicting emotions and confusion. In this way, it is a pure expression of wu wei. Luke's example of food addiction is a powerful one. If we do not face the fact that we have an addiction or a dysfunctional pattern in our lives, we have no opportunity to act. The alcoholic must first acknowledge that drinking is a problem before any change is possible. This acknowledgement of the truth of our condition in any given moment is closer to the idea of acceptance, as I understand it, than the idea of being OK watching a child drown and doing nothing because I "accept" everything. That is completely missing the point.

The discussion on "acceptance" has been split off and moved at member's request to a separate thread -

Thank you for sharing your experience. That’s pretty much acceptance in a nutshell, IMO. Seeing clearly how we react to the world and being genuine with that. In the Buddhist/Bön paradigm it goes a step further and naturally extends to all things because the outside world is not considered separate from us and is determined by our experience of it. That’s a big leap and I’m not suggesting anyone simply “accept” this view but for some it can be supportive, even experienced directly.

I nearly got run over when walking on a sidewalk downtown. Someone apparently decided the sidewalk was an extra lane when needed in a traffic jam.

The most aggressive drivers I’ve ever encountered were in the Boston area. Nowhere else comes close. That was quite a few years ago.

That’s cool, I’m not suggesting you should. My long diatribe was not about you in particular, sorry if it felt that way. Nor was the quote. More a general comment for anyone here struggling with challenging concepts, myself especially... I often find contradictions in the world, in spiritual teachings, and in myself. O’Donohue’s words showed me they can be opportunities for discovery rather than just nonsensical. I like to share that.

Watching the South Park pandemic special. Some twisted stuff but funny as hell.

Doubly ironic because the quote is about contradictions, not choosing a method, and made by a guy who started as a priest, then embraced Celtic spirituality. 😆 I do love his poetry and teachings though.

As is your privilege, nothing wrong with that. Acceptance is just a word. Words used in spiritual contexts can’t always be reduced to dictionary definitions. Especially as we are discussing spiritual concepts in a language foreign to their origins. It is necessary that we use words as substitutes and approximations to the original, whether that be “acceptance,” “compassion,” “equanimity,” etc... I find this is one reason why studying with others and with a teacher can be so supportive. Like UG Krishnamurti’s words discussed earlier, the actions and behavior of a sage are easily and often misinterpreted by those who do not share her view of the world and of others. This is at least one reason why there are seeming contradictions in the great spiritual teachings of many traditions. When encountering something that we don’t understand, don’t accept, or don’t resonate with, we have two options. The first, as you point to above, is to simply reject and go in a different direction. Nothing wrong with that other than the possibility that we may be “throwing out the baby with the bathwater.” An alternative is to remain open to the possibility that the teaching we are not receiving favorably still has more to teach us. For whatever reason we are currently not prepared or karmically connected to receive it yet. This is the basis of teachings that are referred to as “self secret.” Over time, with additional study or practice, it may reveal deeper meaning for us. Again this is where a teacher or group of practitioners can be so helpful. In fact, to some degree it’s why we meet here together at DaoBums IMO. We can’t expect to understand everything we come across in these esoteric teachings that have been translated into foreign tongues and cultures. It can take years, even decades, or maybe never. My own teacher freely admits there are elements in the Bön teachings that don’t make sense to him. He often makes this point when people struggle with understanding of challenging points. And this very point about acceptance and the great perfection of all things is a very common sticking point. Rather than reject those challenging elements, or the tradition as a whole, he simply suggests we stay open to the feeling of not getting it or not agreeing with it knowing that may change as our experience and understanding deepen. I find this an extremely valuable tool that has served me both in spiritual and martial practices, not to mention other areas - sciences, music, etc... A good example for me is playing the guitar. There are techniques or pieces that seem impossible. I can simply give up and work on something else or I can recognize I’m not quite ready to tackle it yet and come back to it from time to time with a flexible perspective and open attitude. In doing so I’ve come to play pieces I never thought possible. Regarding contradictions, I often share this beautiful quote from a masterful Celtic poet and spiritual teacher - “And if you want a point of departure for this new journey of soul, don't choose an intention, don't choose a prayer, don't choose a therapy, and don't choose a spiritual method. Look inwards and discover a point of contradiction within yourself. Stay faithful to the aura and presence of the contradiction. Hold it gently in your embrace and ask it what it wants to teach you." ---- John O'Donohue ... steps down from the soapbox...

It’s critical because it relates to the accuracy of our perception. Maybe the one being bashed was the abuser... We can only act appropriately and effectively if we see clearly. We are often clouded by misperception created by dysfunctional patterns or emotional distortion. When we act on this basis, we are stumbling in the dark causing more distortion. Not at all. There is compassion born from emotion or sentimentality, and there is compassion born from wisdom. They are not the same thing. The sage is fully connected and engaged. The basis of the straw dog metaphor is equanimity, not disconnection or aloofness.

I find a lot of similarity between this idea of "acceptance" with Chapter 5 of the DDJ, the idea of heaven and earth and the sage treating all things and people as straw dogs. Dao does not judge, prefer, select, or exclude but simply allows all to be expressed. It includes all things large and small, both beautiful and horrific. "Acceptance" is simply observing and relating to reality as it is, not necessarily approving or even tolerating.