doc benway

I offer that one teaching from the name “elixir” is that we must sip it over time. While the alignment and realization are complete and indestructible, insofar as it is a quantum perspective shift that doesn’t revert, our connection to it is fluid. We can connect and disconnect. The impossible to do part, if we’re lucky enough to get the alignment and realization, is continuity. So we must periodically sip. That is practice, whether on or off the cushion. ... at least that’s my experience

There's also seeing, in the sense of having an awakening experience (or several) vs realizing or actualizing it thoroughly and consistently in one's life in action. There's a wide swath of awakening and realizing beings, from those of us who get a glimpse and do little with it other than lust after more or chat about it, to those who are Bodhisattvas or manifest the 3 bodies fully in nearly every moment of their sleeping, dreaming, waking, and dying lives, to use Buddhist words. (and I don't mean to say you or anyone else here is one or the other, that is for each of us to determine for ourselves in each and every moment as practitioners) But there are varying degrees of expression and manifestation in our lives... There is everything to be done once Self realization occurs, I meant that literally. One can sit on a park bench and complain (like UG Krishnamurti) or teach (like K) One can teach, serve others, try to make money on it, get some free sex, etc... Different realized beings have done different things with it... Self realization is the beginning of that part of our path, the part that continues past awakening. It is a verb and may continue or may falter and shrivel. If we end there, it is dead really. Useful to no one. I've learned that, for me, the relative aspect of our lives remains equally important as the vehicle through which we can continue to realize the absolute Truth and to allow it to manifest in our lives and the lives of those around us. If we express it in our lives through music, art, healing, creativity, loving, sharing, connecting with others,... whatever, then it is really alive! Just one way to look at it but I think it's an important aspect. This is the important lesson I learned from TWR. The reason I brought that up is that the rainbow body does require far more than simply waking up and realizing the nature of our being. Several folks here have had awakening experiences. None of us have yet dissolved into light. If one accepts that is possible, then the path can be investigated and practiced and it requires a very thorough degree of manifesting the unfabricated essence in every moment of life. Not at all something that just happens of its own accord. It is a gargantuan undertaking of doing absolutely nothing whatsoever! But truly nothing is undone.

Hi Anand, Phet Sounds like 'pay' Is a Tibetan seed syllable. It is often used to cut through delusion, through the busy mind. It brings the mind to the clarity and immediacy of the present moment in the quiet and still space after shouting PHET! Sort of like getting whacked by a Zen master's stick. I was once hanging out with some friends and it spontaneously came out of me really loud and sharp, totally unexpected. One of the guys, not a practitioner of anything in particular, responded to it powerfully, told me it "woke me up!"

In the Bön dzogchen traditions, light is used as a metaphor or example in many different ways and in many different teachings. Once of the most revered texts is called, in fact, the Six Lamps. In terms of metaphors, we often refer to the light of a butter lamp as an example of our "self-illuminating" nature. Another metaphor is the light of the sun, whose light is ever present and unending, even when obscured as by clouds or at night. What all of the metaphors are pointing to is the illuminating quality of our fundamental awareness. In Bön dzogchen teachings, the words most often used are clear light, not simply light. Dzogchen texts often refer to light in terms of what appears to our senses as vision and is often described as sound, light, and rays, to be more comprehensive. Clear light is a bit more specific in referring to our fundamental essence, the Nature of Mind. Clear refers to the complete absence of obscurations or distortion, the spacious aspect, like the open sky. Light refers to the ability to illuminate, the sense of lively presence and connection, the awareness aspect, like the sun light illuminating the sky.

Absolutely! For me, the most important thing is how much time and patience I am willing to invest when learning a new or unfamiliar skill. The second most important thing is whether I can derive pleasure from the craft and process without being overly concerned with the outcome. The skill, the experience, and the improvement in the finished product will come but it can be very slow so it's important to enjoy the process. A book can show you things that can allow you to waste less time with trial and error. On the other hand, that very trial and error can be the source of creativity, of your own unique voice. So by all means use whatever books, youtube videos, etc... you find supportive but there is no substitute for putting in the hours just doing, over and over and over... And be kind to yourself.

Mod notice - As requested by OP, recent posts in this thread were moved to part 1 -

Something mellow...

When the goal or any effort is there, look directly at who is looking to accomplish something. Not word play at all. Cut right through and rest. Aaaaaaaahhh Phet! Spaciousness is the ultimate rock (ewww, sorry) 🤣

And that learning is nothing more than a habit, a reflex. We let go of those learned reflexes as well... A.... ..... .... Phet! 😆

I’ve been reading some of Thomas and a Kingdom of God for Buddha Nature reading is certainly effortless and consistent.

As did you... We’re pointing in a similar direction.

Definitely I was referring to rainbow body and its relationship to the deeper, unfabricated, primordial Self

Good news, it's not something one can develop... Anymore than one can develop Self

“After Self-realization, what else needs to be done?” Everything

Happy Thanksgiving to all of my DB friends and folks. It’s bittersweet being a moderator. I feel a sense of loss for many who aren’t here and gratitude for those who are. I look forward to continuing to weather the storm of samsara with all of you . With love and appreciation ❤️🙏🏽❤️

I’m getting it too but not sure why. Will investigate... TBC

Berlin got very mixed reviews and wasn’t performed for 30 years. I always loved it... It’s free to stream right now https://stannswarehouse.org/berlin-streaming-page/

If you think twice about your own posts, you can always edit them. Once others reply, we don't feel it's appropriate for you to be able to hide their replies.

Yeah, this sounds whiny but it contains a good point. I have a colleague and friend who complains about a lot of things, very regularly. He says it helps him let off steam. But everyone else can see clearly that it's more like an endless loop that feeds on itself and grows more and more solid and real for him. The steam doesn't release, it builds. And it annoys the people around him (especially people that can't accept things very easily... ). He complains but doesn't change, doesn't offer solutions, doesn't act, and doesn't let it go. So I'd maybe add... 'To complain is always non-acceptance of what is. Get off your ass and do something or give it a rest already...' Complaining really doesn't have much value, it's just verbalized pain. Best to accept that what is happening is happening, like it or not, and do something... or not...

I appreciate that explanation.. Justifying atrocity, depression, or hedonism with ideas like karma doesn’t mean much to me either. I’m talking mainly about practical, personal application. Acknowledging, not distorting, holding onto, or rejecting whatever is there in the moment. That’s basically it. And not getting in the way of whatever needs to happen.

I have to disagree. When this elusive idea and practice of acceptance is understood and skillfully engaged, there is nothing more powerful. Think of Gandhi's quote - "You can chain me, you can torture me, you can even destroy this body, but you will never imprison my mind.' I think the dispute we see here is related to whether we are applying this idea of "acceptance" to what we are thinking and feeling in ourselves vs to external visions and circumstances and what is meant by acceptance in this context. The way towards understanding what is meant by this teaching is through the former, working with our inner world of experience as it arises for us just as Bindi mentioned earlier. Once we have experience and stability with that, it naturally extends to external matters. Once again, it does not mean that we do not change things. It does not mean that we tolerate or force approval of anything. It means that the response, if any is needed, comes naturally and spontaneously from a place of clear vision, unimpeded by conflicting emotions and confusion. In this way, it is a pure expression of wu wei. Luke's example of food addiction is a powerful one. If we do not face the fact that we have an addiction or a dysfunctional pattern in our lives, we have no opportunity to act. The alcoholic must first acknowledge that drinking is a problem before any change is possible. This acknowledgement of the truth of our condition in any given moment is closer to the idea of acceptance, as I understand it, than the idea of being OK watching a child drown and doing nothing because I "accept" everything. That is completely missing the point.

The discussion on "acceptance" has been split off and moved at member's request to a separate thread -

Thank you for sharing your experience. That’s pretty much acceptance in a nutshell, IMO. Seeing clearly how we react to the world and being genuine with that. In the Buddhist/Bön paradigm it goes a step further and naturally extends to all things because the outside world is not considered separate from us and is determined by our experience of it. That’s a big leap and I’m not suggesting anyone simply “accept” this view but for some it can be supportive, even experienced directly.

I nearly got run over when walking on a sidewalk downtown. Someone apparently decided the sidewalk was an extra lane when needed in a traffic jam.

The most aggressive drivers I’ve ever encountered were in the Boston area. Nowhere else comes close. That was quite a few years ago.