doc benway

I do remember saying that. It was said with some degree of sadness and some bitterness for what tore us apart. And also with irony though I don't recall the specific context. I mainly stayed out of the political ruckus that went on here but it did help to poison the board. Still does somehow. I actually miss you and many others who left over the political stuff. I've said that several times here as well but I guess you didn't notice that. Anyway, I wish you well.

Sorry to see you go

Hey rene! Nice to see you around. I’ll take care of it, should all be there just napping.

Reading this now, she is powerful!

Just finished watching the second episode of Lovecraft Country on HBO. I grew up on Lovecraft and felt conflicted when learning about the racist and anti-semitic subtext to some of his work. I haven’t read Matt Ruff’s book but I’m really liking the series, with contributions from the likes of Jordan Peele and JJ Abrams, so far. I find it very creative in its celebration of Lovecraft’s considerable contribution to the genre while rooting the narrative in the horror of the black experience, then and now. Looking forward to the ride! #Black Lives Matter

Hi Michael, Welcome to the DaoBums. My unsolicited, personal advice is free to newcomers interested in Mo Pai... Beware! MoPai is a dead end. No accredited teachers or lineage holders exist outside of Indonesia. All authorized teachers are forbidden to teach Westerners. What little information is available (2 practices of a 72 level system) is of dubious authenticity. The right way to get started is to find a teacher of a different system. It’s important to be a discriminating consumer in the search for neigong. Keep an open mind and I hope you enjoy your time here.

Nothing at all....

Thanks Earl, I appreciate the reply. 🙏🏽

I have heard that the sincere and devoted accumulation of merit through DaoBums GoldenStars programTM leads directly to the rainbow body of light... ~anonymous Photographic evidence: Luminal Luke

I think it’s relevant until it’s no longer needed. Like the Buddha’s raft. I suspect there is a similar saying in a Hindu context but I don’t know Hindu text.

I know quite a few... I wouldn’t say I’m there. But I think that is one thing the stories of the immortals point at. It goes through all those aspects of who we are. Yes there is dissatisfaction and the drive to improve, and underlying that or embracing it is an ok-ness. Positive judgments and emotions, negative ones, and an underlying recognition that it is right and good.

And to which realization comes

I think a part of living a good life has to do with being just fine with who I am, all of it, even when it’s not necessarily up to expectations, be they my own or others’.

For sure, the energetic matrix is very complex and precise in both Bön and Buddhist tantra, as well as Daoist neidan. Tantric generation and completion stages are very complex and culminate in awareness filling the central channel. The central channel being the most direct path to liberation, eg awakening, eg birth of the immortal fetus. I think this is a good approach. Thinking about it isn’t it. Trusting the process will take us farther than thinking about the destination in energetic practices. One could say the True Self is never not expressed. At the same time I would also say that recognition or realization is all or none. When you get it, you got it. In dzogchen, it’s one of the most important steps - recognizing the mind’s True Nature and developing certainty in that recognition. That’s what’s called introduction.

I very much feel like this quite often and don’t post much as a result. At the end of the day all we have to share are our experiences, our concepts, and those of others who may, or may not, be further along the path.

How indeed, it’s a big question and if there’s interest maybe one for a thread of it’s own. No doubt you have your own ideas. Do you consider Norbu Rinpoche a master? If so, why? Briefly, I’ve come to look at several parameters: - credentials - are they lineage masters, do they have the endorsement of a credible tradition? - lineage - do they represent ideas and practices that are new, old, terma, unbroken transmission? - skill - do they have mastery of the knowledge and can they communicate it effectively? - view - do their teachings and explanations comport with the texts and does what they’re saying make sense? - meditation - are the techniques they teach pure or modified? do they work for us? do they work for them? - conduct - do they walk the talk? do their actions express the tenets and fruit of practice? are they surrounded in controversy? - fruition - do the show enlightened qualities in their body, speech, and mind? are their students showing similar conduct and qualities? - personal experience - have they had a direct, personal impact on me or my practice that reflects enlightened qualities? - do other qualified masters consider them as such? .... and so on Anyone I refer to as master satisfies this general qualification in my mind in some fashion. I’m no authority other than the one that must satisfy the question in my own mind. Ultimately we need to make a determination for ourselves, ideally over time, as to who is qualified. If we then see benefit in our lives from the relationship, trust and confidence will develop.

For me, it is an opportunity to learn or reinforce something. It is also a chance to see quotes from teachers and teachings I may not be familiar with. Finally, it is a chance to see something that was supportive for someone else. In a dzogchen context, learning has three aspects. One is to practice and develop direct experience, then compare that to the words of the teachers, and then compare to the descriptions in the texts. The quotes are helpful to me in this regard.

The masters I’ve met or had contact with who I would say are the closest to this ideal would be the first to say they are nowhere close. Is it possible? Maybe, maybe not; it makes no difference to me as it doesn’t impact my own practice and understanding. I think the idea that it either can or can’t is more an obstacle than something of value.

OK, I can respect that. Please feel free to PM me if you’re willing. I assure you I won’t laugh or tell you that you don’t anything. And if you’d rather not, that’s cool.

I'm quite sure there are other masters who have elucidated finer points. Can you share about the two key points further? Or direct me to a resource? Not sure what key points you are referring to. Thanks

Same thing goes in dzogchen teachings... The tricky part is whether or not a living, individual practitioner is ever able to completely and fully drop all imperfections, impurities, and obscurations such that the living experience is equivalent to the theoretical. There are three aspects of the self-awareness of "True Self" in dzogchen: Rigpa of the base - closest to the conceptual True Self we seem to be referring to. Generally, in the dzogchen teachings, it's said that the living practitioner does not experience this "base rigpa" but that, at the time of death, when the 5 elements dissolve there is the emergence of perfectly obscured clear light that is aware of itself without any obstruction whatsoever. We can also get very close to this through the experience of clear light in deep sleep, an objective of sleep yoga. Rigpa of the path - the practitioner's expression/experience of the the self-aware nature in the non-dual experience of meditation Effulgent rigpa - the pure, self-aware nature of the display of the base. Similar to the empty , yet self-aware, nature of sound, light, and rays. Not claiming these definitions are perfect or comprehensive, I'm a beginner, but hopefully you get the basic idea.

“Nobody believes in God like an atheist: “There is no God, and I am His prophet.” ― Alan W. Watts

When dzogchen teachers use a phrase like "pure and perfect mind," it relates to that "True Self" or rather, the aspect of the living practitioner which is closest one can come to an experience of that "True Self."

While the details of the description of the central channel may vary among disciplines, I would say they refer to an experience of openness within the center of the body/mind which we can connect to with awareness. When I think about a question like ...are these practices going to the same place? I run into a wonderful contradiction. Each tradition has developed its own unique conceptual model and understanding of reality, as well as different praxis. So in that sense I have this sense that no, they are going in different directions and this should lead to different destinations. And I’ve read and heard of great masters who would so no. On the other hand, the destination is not other than me, it is never very far from where I am at this moment, it is the essence of my very being, so if I were to take two different paths to myself, would I arrive at two different destinations? Rather than try to pin down an answer I tend to leave the question open ended and see if there is more there to learn. It reminds me of a quotation from John O’Donohue: ”We need to have greater patience with our sense of inner contradiction in order to allow its different dimensions to come into conversation within us. There is a secret light and vital energy in contradiction. Where is energy, there is life and growth. Your contemplative solitude will allow your contradictions to emerge with clarity and force. If you remain faithful to this energy, you will gradually come to participate in a harmony that lies deeper than any contradiction. This will give you new courage to engage the depth, danger, and darkness of your life.”

More similarity to dzogchen here in that the Nature of mind is taught to be primordially self-aware. Connecting to that for the individual is referred to as Rigpa of the path, also referred to as pure and perfect mind.