doc benway

In Buddhist and Bön paradigms, there are six senses - sight, hearing, taste, smell, touch, and thought. I was alluding to thought and words as the sixth sense. What is "beyond" is often referred to as the Nature of Mind. Beyond is not an accurate term as it implies that it is something separate or apart from, that is not correct. You're right, it cannot be imagined. The experience arises when the mind rests from all of the activity of the six senses and is simply open and resting in its "Natural State."

I agree that words can go to at least to the heights of art of the other 5 senses.

I agree with Bindi, it’s not about hiding, more about consideration for others. Some people can be quite sensitive to bright, flashing lights. I’m one of them. I think it would be an act of compassion.

Actually mind and Nature of Mind are not limited to human in my usage. All sentient beings “have” both and both encompass all of reality and non-reality alike.

I think you are touching on one reason that there is a negative connotation to thinking in some spiritual contexts. Language is a foundational element of thinking. It is necessarily limiting and incomplete and is, therefore, an obstacle to knowing/being/doing this thing that is happening.

Lima, You could also use as that would satisfy your posting needs and those of others who find the bright, flashy images distracting.... Win - win?

Why yes

I often look at my choices and activity here. I wonder how my engagement with all of you here is similar or different to my meat-life? Do I react in similar ways? Do I focus on similar aspects of self and other in relationship? What are my triggers and my juice? I learn things about myself when I do this but it can be painful. Just thought I’d share that.

Hi oglights, Welcome to DaoBums. Not all practices are suitable or effective for all practitioners. We are all unique and need different things and that can change with time and circumstances. Your lack of perceived progress can mean many things. One thing it does NOT mean is that you are somehow unworthy or flawed. That is the habitual voice of low self-esteem offering its explanation, which is like a broken record, and about as useful. It means quite simply that this particular combination of teacher, system, and student is not effective at this point in time. If you try to loosen a 13mm hex nut with a 3/8 inch wrench and it doesn't work does that mean there is a flaw in the nut or the wrench? Of course not, it just means you have the wrong tool for the job. (...and no doubt the habitual voice of low self-esteem would be critical for selecting the wrong wrench! ) I have no idea what you need or what practice would be effective for you. Each of us will tend to suggest things that worked for us, or things we feel would help based on our very limited knowledge of you. I think that you have tried the dissolution method for long enough and if it had potential to help that would be clear by now. If you engage in a practice with devotion and reasonable guidance, you should see results within a matter of months; certainly within a year. Otherwise I would suggest moving on. No need to blame anyone, just keep looking until you find a wrench that fits. I studied a credible and comprehensive system for about 12 years and I could see real benefits. But then I reached a point where I could tell I needed something different. I had reached a block of some sort and my teacher was unable (or unwilling) to facilitate me getting through it. My relationship to the practice and teacher was strong but I knew there was something important missing. I opened my mind and life to the possibility of change, even though it was VERY difficult to do as I felt a strong obligation. Then something wonderful happened, I made a connection to a different teacher in a completely unrelated system and I could tell there was a deeper connection there. Not long after I found in this teacher what was missing from my previous experience. As a result my practice has deepened and my life and been profoundly enhanced. Change is inevitable and change is natural. There is no need to hang onto something that isn't working, life is far too short for that. There is little in life that is as certain as the fact that everything changes. We can embrace that change and grow with the newness of the experience. Or we can fight change and punish ourselves because our experience is not what we expect it to be. Not sure any of this helps but I wish you good luck in finding what you need.

I see the Earth in the bottom right in the form of a child who is looking at a black rat in the upper left.

Brushy One String says 21 strings is 20 too many!

I'm referring to the Nature of Mind. I should have been more clear, especially when complaining about someone else's lack of clarity!

It can get even more complicated in Bön studies. There is a mixture of Sanskrit, Tibetan, and Zhangzhung to be navigated...

I find it confusing when mind and Nature are used interchangeably

This is valid on the sutric path of renunciation. Not so much in dzogchen where everything in your experience is taken as the path. Non-duality encompasses everything, nothing is refused or vilified. No way to liberate from rebirth without integration of everything, especially the mundane. I follow Bön actually but quite similar to Buddhism. I’d like to see an example of someone who was enlightened without doing exactly that. A direct experience of the non-dual, Bodhicitta, is being in all shoes.

Split off from this thread: I find the draw to conspiracy theory or denial of fact to be a fascinating phenomenon. I experience it myself from time to time - grasping at an explanation which contradicts general consensus that may not have solid evidence to support it. Why are we drawn to this? One of the challenges of current times is that the sheer volume and pervasiveness of misinformation and spurious information makes it very difficult to assess competing theories. There has been quite a bit written about the phenomenon and I expect there to be more study in the aftermath of the the Covid pandemic. The article linked below points to the motivation for such behavior to be for some a feeling of social identity and for others a feeling of uniqueness... https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-apes/202007/why-are-conspiracy-theories-so-appealing Here is a review of recent psych studies looking at the topic that seems to suggest that conspiracy theory indulgence is not effective at satisfying its objective... https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/0963721417718261 I wonder if anyone wants to discuss this here? I'd be happy to start a new thread otherwise.

Let there be an opening into the quiet that lies beneath the chaos, where you find the peace you did not think possible and see what shimmers within the storm. ~ John O’Donohue

... or the Lose button

I agree but haven’t found a setting to make that happen. I put in a teq request. Don’t think the current platform supports it.

I share your perspective on this. The tricky thing is how to know whose perspective is accurate? Each of us essentially creates our own reality.

I know the answer to that question... no. Whatever we think reality is, it's not that. Our thoughts are never very far from it but they are not it. Reality or perhaps truth, is something we can't capture in words or concepts. My point for starting this thread was far more mundane. How do I interact with people when I am anonymous and using digital media as compared to how I interact in the flesh. Can that tell me anything useful? Can it perhaps lead to clearer communication, less confrontation, less endless online bickering? Perhaps not but it is simply something that interests me in this age of increasingly remote and digital communication.

Are you willing to share anything about your own practice? And how you work with the things you experience like thoughts, emotions, ideas?

I would call this a beautiful human experience of empathy and compassion. This is a measure of success in your practice, not failure. It is a sign of opening of the heart. Equanimity is being with this fully, to honor it, to give yourself the space and support you need to do just that, nothing else, as it is your authentic experience. Equanimity is not unfeeling or distance. It is being with it, hosting it. Embracing it and embracing the Hypnoape who is suffering. With much mastery everything may have that single taste but that is theory for most. We need to work with where we’re at not where we think we should be or want to be. My teacher would remind you that when our flames are small, they need protection and are easily extinguished. So we don’t push ourselves too hard. We’re gentle with ourselves. With practice and devotion, the flame grows and we are less disturbed by events. When strong, like a bonfire it is fed by even a strong wind. So I suggest you keep doing what you’re doing. When the reactivity settles there is the possibility of powerful qualities coming up (like equanimity, like love, generosity...). Notice these, they can be subtle at first. Act on these if you’re so inspired. Trust it. 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽

Maybe he was working with that famous koan, ‘if you see the Buddha in the road kill him...’ 😉

The reason I’m with my current teacher is exactly that. He always prioritizes connecting what can be highly abstruse and esoteric teachings to our lives in very practical ways. I once complimented him on his ability to do just that in a retreat and he shrugged his shoulders and said, “that’s my job.” We need to be able to work with this stuff directly and practically or it’s just mental gymnastics. And if we aren’t willing to admit to ourselves where we are on our path, whether or not it’s where we would like to be or where we want others to think we are; and work with that, we’re wasting our time.