doc benway

You explicitly and publicly put it to me to decide if you stay or leave. I didn’t ask for that responsibility. If that is not a transfer of responsibility, I don’t know what is. Others have stated they feel that you are not taking responsibility for your interactions with them. Their perspective is as valid as yours. You may want to look at this a little deeper for yourself, or not. Your choice. You posted the question publicly so I responded publicly. I rarely use PM here.

I have no intention of asking for you to be banned, or anyone else for that matter. These scans hold little meaning or significance for me. I stand corrected for mistakenly thinking you identified as a part of the group in question.

Your vision is nothing more than your mind. I don't see it as my responsibility to decide if he leaves or stays. That is his choice. I mentioned a ban on all members of your group if the energy games continued here in order to protect the members from manipulative behavior. Sean is clearly not here but ultimately has the authority and responsibility at this point to ban members. I don't know what this means. Yes, the pressure was placed on me. It's interesting that even when it came to whether to stay here or not, Jeff was not willing to take that responsibility. It was placed on me. I have no formal authority here and assume Jeff chose me because he respects my perspective. While I appreciate that, this is something Jeff and your group need to own. Not me. Outed generally refers to exposing someone's secret. Is that how you are using the term here? Again, it's Jeff's choice to stay or go, say goodbye or not... Not mine. Undoubtedly, that is why I am cautious with my interactions with people. Imagine the trace left when fucking with people's heads, sexuality, trust in deities, and so forth. Major responsibilities that require one to actually take ownership and be accountable. No problem. It would be easy to be reactive to your flights of thought as expressed here. Great practice for me to breath, notice my reactivity, then address your musings with kindness rather than whatever emotion pops up. Great, nothing is more valuable than the ability to let go. I feel the same. The way Jeff is handled here is up to Jeff, the collective, and the administrator. It should not be my unilateral decision. Peace

I think that’s accurate.

I’m with you...

Kabbalah is not taught publicly or freely and is considered very holy and potentially dangerous, not at all heretical. Students need first to demonstrate a deep knowledge and understanding of Torah and Talmud. After that a study of Kabbalah may be offered in small group or private sessions. It’s similar to how tantra and dzogchen used to be treated.

Jeff’s authority. He asked my opinion, twice, and I offered just that - my opinion. Jeff wanted my recommendation and he got it. I am a bit conflicted. I’ve always liked Jeff. I would like to see people who need and want help receive it. I also feel members need to be supported and heard when they feel they’ve been violated. The reactions I’ve seen from you and Jonesboy on Jeff’s behalf reinforce that. If there is a question about Jeff’s energetic work on multiple members here, I feel it should stop, at least until the membership or admin decides how it should be handled. Thanks Luke

I have a friend who is not orthodox and took a job teaching history at a Yeshiva university. They aggressively censored the subject matter he wanted to teach. He lasted one semester and left. I think there is a lot of fear of losing people from the faith to other traditions, fear of losing the purity of the teachings. There is an obsessive-compulsive tenor that runs through the orthodox community regarding just about everything but particularly regarding any transgressions against the laws, even unintentional. It’s unfortunately counter-productive and seems to lead to alienating more moderates.

I’d let her scan my chakras...

One of the reasons I didn't use the word Christian. Christianity in American politics is the antithesis of the teachings of Jesus. The God of the majority of American Christianity is green and made of paper...

As mentioned by silent thunder, idolatry for me is to objectify the divine, to separate that from ourselves. Ironically, we see this to a profound degree in Judaism as well as the other Abrahamic traditions. I have encountered some rabbis and students of Judaism who see more deeply but they are in the minority. There are certainly profound truths to be found but it requires a fair degree of discrimination and insight to tease it out of the pomp and circumstance, and out of the blind obedience. This is likely a big part of why Jews make up a disproportionate number of Western Buddhists.

And one, in particular, is exponentially gaining power in American politics. It's frightening...

Read this one a little while ago but don't think I posted about it here...

Thanks cheya I appreciate that you are trying to broaden the perspective on this. I never feel comfortable when seeing what looks like wolf-pack mentality. We are all adults (I hope, otherwise it becomes a much bigger problem) and bear responsibility for engaging in these practices. On the other hand, when multiple, rational and intelligent people are having negative experiences I feel it is important they be acknowledged, given voice, and their issues addressed with sensitivity and accountability.

I think I’ve already answered. I’d ask that you refrain from engaging people here in these energetic practices. Clearly, some are feeling violated or somehow negatively impacted. Whether you read and post here is your choice, or sean’s.

Try to imagine how I feel reading the experiences of illumairen, bindi, chaz, and lori... and the treatment they received from you and others. Deeply disturbing to me. I always enjoyed our discussions as well. I am not in authority here but I will say this. The methods you are using are clearly having a negative impact on several people here, and elsewhere. I don't feel it's my place to ask you to leave but I will ask that you not engage in your energetic practices with members here. I will also ask that you try a bit harder to see what effect your actions are having on women, from their perspective. There is a great responsibility in convincing people you can get into their minds and bodies from a distance. A great deal of sensitivity and accountability is needed and I don't see that on display.

Isn't it? Do you ever see this tendency in yourself? Are you looking in that direction? Do you routinely and consistently turn the light around? Your slant There are many wonderful manuals on cultivation. Different perspectives speak more clearly to different seekers. We are all unique individuals who need different things and, for some, that can change over time. For others, one resource may be enough. When we push what works for us on others and denigrate what they feel is working for them, it is a sign of a closed mind, a sign of a certain degree of ignorance. I'm very pleased you have found what works for you. I've found something a bit different that works more effectively for me... are you able and willing to embrace that reality or must it always come back to a belief that you have the answer and I'm a fool?

deci certainly had a way with words... I miss her

The Magus is brilliant. It's been a very long time, I may need to reread it.

A Step Away From Paradise documents a journey a group of people made trying to find a hidden spiritual land that only rarely reveals itself to the mortal world. There are supernatural elements but it is very much about the people and life in the wilds of Himalaya. Exhalation is fiction leaning toward fantasy/scifi but very intelligent. I didn't mean to link the two, just making one recommendation and sharing something I'm currently reading and enjoying.

Understanding and realization are two different things. One does not necessarily lead to the other. I'm very pleased with where I'm at in my practice and understanding. Thanks for the suggestion.

You can’t make this shit up! 🤣

I find this thread extremely disturbing. I've also read some threads on another forum involving the same topic. What I see here is a group following a person who has cobbled together their own method for working with energy, psychology, and spirituality from other traditions; and is bringing a healthy dose of sexuality into the mix, at least in some instances. At least three, and possibly more, people are claiming harm from these interactions. At least two of these people have some background in energetic and spiritual methods. That should give everyone serious pause. Rather than take responsibility and modify the method or selection process, all I see is people defending themselves and the group leader and laying blame on those who were negatively impacted by the interaction. As has been said before, gaslighting 101, not to mention other manipulative behaviors. This is wrong and needs to stop immediately. People can be fragile and susceptible to energetic and psychological "work." Fucking around with their heads by bringing sexuality, gods, and goddesses into it requires considerable responsibility and accountability, not to mention some degree of expert training and credibility. I see none of those at play here. Before now, I felt Jeff and the group were a bit misguided but benign. Now I'm really concerned about what they are doing to people. Playing games with energy, psychology, spirituality, and sexuality is a dangerous business; bringing powerful spiritual entities into the mix even more so, especially when the foundation of the method is so flimsy. I'd suggest the entire approach should be critically assessed and modified to prevent further harm. I would also recommend banning all members of the group from this forum unless they agree to end engaging their practices with members here. Just my $.02

I find there’s something a bit fun and refreshing about the dynamic here sans moderation. Kind of like Trump’s USA. People showing their true colors, the darkness being explicit rather than lurking under the surface. Ego bluster, bullying, self-aggrandizement; we truly seem to be a microcosm of the Western world. The downside is that it’s not a very supportive environment for sharing personal experiences or precious teachings. To be honest, even when we were heavily moderated, it wasn’t a very supportive place anyway. Some of us take ourselves way too seriously here and the ugly tendency to treat each other with little or no civility or mutual respect seems nearly inevitable in digital communication. If we think we are reaching high levels of cultivation but we remain closed minded about differing systems and are quick to temper or quick to hurt strangers out of some movement of ego, we need to pause and look at ourselves a bit more critically. I’ve seen all levels and styles of moderation here during my tenure and there have always been similar problems. My preferences regarding the forum are closest to Luke’s. Be nice, show respect, keep an open mind, or find another place to play. I don’t expect that sort of moderation to be enacted but it would be necessary to create the sort of atmosphere I’d be most drawn to. At the end of the day, if we want a place to interact with others who share common interests here, we simply need to exercise a little restraint, show each other some kindness and respect. When things start heating up, we need to recognize it as an opportunity to look at why I am so attached to MY opinion, not so much worry about who’s right and who’s wrong. We need to learn how to let go and move on, how to put people on ignore. If someone is foolish enough to get their spiritual education and training from anonymous members on a message board, the consequences are their own. We can offer a warning, once or twice, but we are not going to save the world from WMP or OAAD’s... Maybe we can save some folks from energetic abuse but that’s for another thread... Rant off... Peace y’all

If you like this, you may also like: I'm currently reading Ted Chiang - very talented! He wrote the story from which the movie Arrival was developed.