doc benway

Appreciate the clarification. Same principles apply.

Religion is something that we are indoctrinated into from a VERY young and impressionable age, essentially from birth. The beliefs and consequences of disbelief are deeply embedded in us and it is very natural to experience strong and frightening emotions, thoughts, energetic disturbances, inner dialogue, and even physical symptoms related to separating. There are a lot of people publicly discussing the "deconstruction" of their Christian faith in the US right now and there are probably some useful support groups and other resources out there. For example, here is one resource - https://www.soyouredeconstructing.com/. Ironically, one of the best spiritual guides I've ever heard talk about this process, indirectly, was Father Anthony Demello, a Jesuit and a psychologist from India. He spoke at length of the deep need, he referred to it as an addiction, we all have to feel accepted by those around us. It is a very powerful driving force for people that goes back to early childhood and religious indoctrination is an important part of the equation. I think what you are going through is completely normal. I also think it is important to have some support from others who can understand and relate to your situation. It is not easy to do something like this alone. Energetic practices and meditation can be helpful. For some people, mental health support is an important part of the process so keep an open mind about that. Wishing you the best on your journey.

Greetings Friends, The moderation team is committed to minimizing censorship and promoting a wide range of discussion here. We are not the arbiters of truth and do not have the time or expertise to vet technical claims and official narrative, or define what constitutes "conspiracy theory." We are here to facilitate civil debate and discussion on a wide range of topics. The primary mission of this site to host discussion related to Eastern spirituality. While the emotional challenges associated with current events can be a wonderful opportunity to engage in one's own personal and spiritual practice, more often such discussions deteriorate into argument. This has been having a negative effect on the board from a content and energetic perspective for several years now, understandably exacerbated by a global pandemic. While we don't want to ban discussion of important topics, we don't want the inevitable argumentation to drown out the board's primary focus, Eastern spirituality and personal development. Consequently, we have decided to create a new sub-forum in The Rabbit Hole labeled Current Events. This will be a private forum, viewable only by members in good standing who request access. All Covid, political, and other current events type threads not in PPDs will be moved there shortly. All future threads on Covid and current events of all types will be hosted in Current Events. Such discussions will also be permitted in PPDs. Current Events will also be an area the mods can use to sequester other contentious threads. Members that are drawn to such topics are invited to request access to use this private sub-forum, or PPD, provided they do so with mutual respect. Please note that all forum rules will apply. Those who come here to focus on spiritual dialogue and prefer to avoid the current events should find it a bit easier to do so by simply not requesting permission to access. In order to request access to this new Current Events café, please post a request for access here or send me a request by private message. You will need to have a post count of at least 50 to be granted access. It will take some time to migrate the threads, grant permissions, and workout any kinks that may arise so please be patient. We sincerely hope this small adjustment will facilitate productive discussion in a way that is supportive to as many members as possible. Thank you for your cooperation!

My apologies for derailing the thread and thank you for getting it back on track. I have been struggling a bit with my reactivity of late. I think a lot of people are going through similar feelings, especially those in vulnerable groups and their loved ones. I also think there are a LOT of allies out there and when push comes to shove they will show up.

I immediately began rereading A Tale for the Time Being. Astonishing.

I wonder how many competent and skillful players and teachers breathe today as compared to centuries past? In the modern age, traditional martial arts skill is a bit less valuable in society and so it’s no surprise folks aren’t as committed to the intensity and duration of training needed to really excel; but the access and awareness are so much greater and there are good teachers out there around the globe nowadays.

It seems to me learning is related to knowledge and unlearning to wisdom. I think both are needed in turn to develop skill in taijiquan.

And to unlearn …

The 8 are correct: peng, lu, ji, an, cai, lie, zhou, and kao. The 5… yes and no. While the footwork demonstrated in the video is legit and effective in taiji and other martial arts, I think the “5 steps” or 5 directions in taiji generally refers to: move forward, move back, turn left, turn right, and central equilibrium.

Here is a pearl: When you are watching your teacher demonstrate a new technique, focus on their footwork first. People focus too much on the hands and eyes and breathing… you must get the footwork first, then everything else comes much more readily. Feet, then waist, then upper. Everything in taiji is rooted in the feet, transfers through the waist and expresses in the extremities and torso.

I think that is a reasonable objective. Yes, for me that speaks to the ability to really embody taiji principles in taiji quan. A worthy goal and definitely achievable with skillful practice. One thing I observed and learned first hand practicing and teaching taijiquan - The way to discover the essence of taiji in the quan is to learn and train as close to martial application as possible, meaning in terms of stance, body movement, attention, breathing, training with partners, etc... The art and method are finely tuned to optimize elements that are martially applicable. Focusing on the martial expression ingrains habits that help us to find the wave and ride it, if you will. Practicing with too much of an eye toward theory can actually be counter-productive as the mind may misguide us into emphasizing the wrong things in our training. Not sure if I'm communicating well but I've seen people too focused on theoretical aspects not penetrate deeply enough into the art to really grasp the essence of taiji it contains, if that makes any sense. I wish you well on your journey, it's been a wonderful path for me that continues.

I appreciate you sharing your perspective on this and I acknowledge and understand your points. I'll offer a different perspective. Taiji as a Daoist concept and description of the balance of opposites is simply that, a description of a principle in operation in our day to day reality. Taijiquan is an attempt to adapt this principle to practical martial arts applications, and of course there is an additional benefit to health and wellness. It is effective at a practical level and makes perfect sense once we have some instruction and have developed some basic skills. Taijiquan is not taiji theory but a practical training method that takes advantage of the theory. For example, my opponent attacks with force, I yield. My opponent yields and I destroy their base. It is not unusual to conflate ourselves as practitioners with conceptual principles and theory. I see this frequently in discussions of spirituality, particularly in traditions like zen and dzogchen. Practitioners are people making use of theory and principles in order to optimize outcomes but theory is simply that, a way our thought process labels and categorizes trends and patterns in our realm of experience, nothing more. FWIW, I thought that worth sharing.

Here is a link to the book in English. I have a copy of the English book (which is softcover by the way, not sure why they list is as hardcover in the description). I also have a copy in Mandarin which is in hardback. Thank you very much for the link to the video of Chen Jin Pao doing Master Chen's taiji form. I've never come across that before! If you ever come across any others, please share. I would love to see him demonstrating xingyi and bagua. Much appreciated!

I also practice xingyi quan, bagua zhang, and zhan zhuang, but not yiquan. If you stand for long periods of time (over an hour, IMO, qualifies for a long period of time), it is normal and healthy to experience spontaneous movement. The wave you are feeling is also completely normal and expected. I have a friend who believes the wave experience is related, at least in part, to the wave effect within the cerebrospinal fluid that bathes our brain and spinal cord. I'm not completely sure of the explanation and don't generally concern myself with explanations but it is real and normal and not in any way pathological. Spontaneous movements certainly can be an indication of various blockages and obstacles within the body, energy, and mind which are naturally attempting to unravel, release, and restore balance. We all live with blockages and obstacles at any given moment, it is inevitable. My personal approach to this is NOT to analyze and explain and not to try to identify specific sources or locations within the body, energy, or mind. It's not necessarily wrong to do this but I've not found it helpful. My recommendation is to simply allow the practice to express what needs to be expressed in its own way and in its own time. Trust in the practice and focus on the process more than the outcome. One caution I have is not to push yourself too hard when it comes to standing and circle walking, or training in general. There is too much, not enough, and just the right amount of training and this can vary over time or even day to day depending on your condition and other factors. The right balance is something you need to discover for yourself through patience and commitment to the practice. It comes in part from listening carefully to the body. Of course, a qualified teacher can be indispensable. IMO 2 hours is a VERY long period of time to stand, especially if you've only been training for a year and a half. That said, I do not practice yiquan. My neijia teacher always suggested 30 minutes per side in santishi and one hour of continuous circle walking to be plenty in a practice session for any level of practitioner. Of course there are stories of the masters doing far more but they are the masters and developed these skills over decades of dedicated practice. As with all things Daoist, balance is the key. Too much of a good thing can sometimes be toxic and counter-productive. I'm put in mind of a parable, can't think of the source at the moment: Student - how long before I reach mastery if I practice with great commitment and intensity? Master - 10 years S - what if I practice twice as hard and long? M - 20 years S - what if I practice 10 times harder and longer? M - 50 years! S - I don't understand, why is it the harder I work, the longer it will take?! M - If you always have one eye on the prize, how can you stay focused on the path? (... or something like that) Sometimes we can practice so intensely and dedicate so much time and effort that we damage our body, energy, and mind. We can burn ourselves out or injure ourselves. We can neglect other aspects of our lives that are equally important in the long run. We need to balance training with play and we need to prioritize things like nutrition, hydration, restful sleep, rewarding occupation, and warm relationships with those we care for. Sorry for the rant, I hope it's worth something...

He shared so much of his time and love for the benefit of this community! Thank you brother @Trunk! ❤️

Currently reading A Tale for the Time Being by Ruth Ozeki. I am blown away by her literary voice and her ability to incorporate her wisdom, she’s a Zen nun, into her fiction. I previously read her book, The Book of Form and Emptiness. It took me a long time to get into that one and I gave up a few times, but once it grabbed me it didn’t let go and the ending was beautiful and powerful. I’m finding A Tale for the Time Being to be more accessible and engaging. It’s inspired by chapter 11 of the Shobogenzo by Dogen Eihei, for anyone familiar with that masterwork.

Yes, I studied and continue to practice Chen Pan Ling's internal arts - taiji, xingyi, and bagua. My teacher studied with his student, Chen Jin Pao. Very good stuff. His book on Taijiquan has been translated into English and is very useful.

An act of Wu Wei Old Mrs. Crow stuft’ with straw Gives Birth to a Sun

With due respect to your teacher, I think it can be a mistake to tell people things like "not a big deal." It may, in fact, be a very big deal to a given person under the right circumstances. Something may be, from an absolute perspective, not a big deal at all, for nothing really is. But from the practitioner's perspective that may not be the case, we are human practitioners after all, not the absolute "itself." ( I know, I know, we are not something other than the absolute ever, but that is not always our experience). The Two Truths doctrine tells us that things can legitimately be a big deal, which is why we practice. I once had an experience that for me was a very big deal. My teacher at the time sort of brushed it off with what I felt was a sense of arrogance and dismissiveness that didn't sit right with me. It wasn't the sole reason but definitely contributed to my looking for a different teacher. My current teacher listened to me and responded in a way that was much more supportive and helpful. He didn't really give me any more information but he did give me a powerful, non-verbal teaching, a transmission if you will, that had a major impact for me. Teaching and guiding people is a tricky thing.

Me too

Crazy wisdom, gotta love it!

My friends finally have power and water back. They were relatively well prepared before hand and have done well. They were able to get water from a nearby stream and filter it. They had a solar radio and charger that helped. They’re just outside the town of Swannanoa which is essentially wiped out. Lots of collapsed structures, lots of missing people whose bodies will be recovered for a long period of time as they begin to recover. The area is devastated. My Sarasota family fared much better. They had to evacuate. it got away with little damage and are back home.

Yes, this comes up as does any and every thought and feeling one could possibly imagine. “Is this it? Am I doing but right? What’s the point? What a waste of time!” The possibilities are infinite. The response is always the same - notice what is there in your authentic experience, leave it as it is, and continue. Don’t push it away, don’t engage, just be present with whatever is arising, no judgment.

Some simple suggestions that may help if you are interested in getting a sense of the mind’s nature. Rest more and do less - body, speech, and mind. Instead of reaching for the phone or keyboard, take a few minutes to simply be. See what you see, hear what you hear, but just let it be as it is. Less analysis, planning, and reflecting, and more spending time in the present moment with your senses fully open, no matter what you are doing (provided it’s safe, of course). Whenever you notice yourself narrating your experience or engaging with thoughts, plans, or memories, simply notice that tendency and let all effort at participation or suppression dissolve. Feel and connect with the stillness that is always there, behind the movement of the body. Connect with silence, rather than sound and stories. Feel and connect with the openness and spaciousness of the heart and mind, rather than engaging with the contents, emotion and thought. This is the direction to go in to get a taste of the mind’s essence.

“this whole thing about losing the ego. About losing the self. It’s not about losing anything really. it just comes in totally free. It’s a blank canvas that you can paint anyway you want.” ~ Bill Kreutzmann