doc benway

I occasionally post on EF and I'm new to this forum. I generally try to be very respectful in all of my posts, no matter what forum. I agree that there are some aggressive types over there on EF. Sometimes it's unjustified and I've been rubbed the wrong way more than once. People here seem to be more open-minded but that doesn't mean that we like having our intelligence insulted. I don't believe that Lama Dorje is legitimate. His claims are too far-fetched. He's not old enough to have studied and "mastered" a fraction of the arts he claims. His claims, when read carefully, are full of inconsistencies and contradictions. Perhaps he has some skill and knowledge but his presentation online is all about sensationalism - no true student of the way would present themselves in this way. This is not altruism, it's more akin to megalomania and exploitation. To those of us who practice cultivation, it's comical. Claims like - one hour of training with him is equivalent to 100 years of practice in other systems. I believe that he is probably a good hypnotist and exploiter of charisma, perhaps he even has some degree of skill and knowledge.

The Lama Thunderbolt film trailer is exactly like many other self-proclaimed qi masters out there. One kiai master in Japan recently put out an open challenge and was beaten senseless by his challenger - you can see the sad result here, if you're interested...

Intersting how similar his kiai fighting is to the lama's supernatural powers in his movie. Here's another guy that can injure his students without touching them, but couldn't do anything to the news reporter covering the story...

Through my study of Dao meditation (Kun Lun Xian Zong sect), Taijiquan, and Xingyiquan (as well as some Japanese arts) over the past 35 years, I feel that I have at least a rudimentary understanding of human potential and energetic potential (I'm also a surgeon so I understand anatomy and physiology a bit). I'm sorry if I sound arrogant but I simply want to make a point. I don't believe anyone's claims of supernatural ability unless I experience it first hand - nothing so far although I have met some very talented people...

Cultivation and enlightenment are experiential and not things that can be easily demonstrated or communicated to others. Nearly every "demonstration" of qi power I've seen in books, magazines, film clips, and live demos are parlor tricks. True qi power can certainly be felt and experienced (I vividly remember each time a high level internal practitioner has let me feel their fajin), but not that easily seen from a spectator's perspective. I believe that Lama Dorje's "magical powers" on the Lama Thunderbolt film are a combination of hypnosis, voluntary cooperation, and perhaps some other type of trickery. I'd be happy to be proven wrong but doubt that'll ever happen. I would gladly give him an opportunity to blast me with his qi, thunder, or whatever he wants to call it, I have no fear that I'd be in any jeopardy. I'm very open-minded but also realistic. My shiye is extremely advanced in meditation and internal (and external) martial training and was similarly unimpressed by the "Lama Thunderbolt."

When someone puts themselves out there in this fashion, how can you expect anything less than the kind of reception he got at EF...? I feel that it's a bad reflection on us as martial artists and seekers of truth through Daoist and Buddhist cultivation to enable, facilitate, or encourage such exploitation and foolishness. Self cultivation and internal martial training are beautiful and valuable practices. Parlor tricks like in "Lama Thunderbolt" lead to us being lumped in with charlatans, tele-evangilists, and snake-oil salesmen. Perhaps that's no a big deal - in the long run it really makes no difference, but it does turn a lot of people off who might otherwise benefit from praciticing meditaiton, taijiquan, and other valuable forms of cultivation... People like Lama Dorje compromise the credibility of those of us looking for real truths in internal cultivation, not shortcuts and sensationalism...

Sorry for the rant but sometimes you've got to call bullshit when it's poured all over your PC monitor...

As a newbie to this forum, I'd like to ask what a CCO is?

Thanks

Steve

I was taught that yawning is a reflex related to hypoxia that gets a little extra oxygen to the brain. Don't fight it, it's the way...

I'm very new to the forum and have learned some stuff already. I'm looking forward to see how things develop. I like the irony - a forum devoted to discussion about a topic that defies discussion and is inherently experiential.... much like the Dao De Jing....

Hi Mantra68,

Do you know about how old Max is?

Steve

I currently do an hour each (most!) mornings. I'm by far the clearest first thing in the morning. In the afternoon, evening, and before bed I'm tired, my head's cloudy and I struggle more.

Nice clips Buddy - I particularly like the Xian Tian changes.

Buddy,

 

I believe that being a higher level of energy work is indeed more enlightened then the normal person. To do what Lama Dorje says he can do emitting light from his hand same goes for Wang Li Ping in his book with the wolves when he hit them with light from his palm and killed 3 of them.

 

WYG

I'd like to see either of these magical feats demonstrated. I practice Daoist meditation from the Kun Lun Xian Zong school. I'm not that far advanced but there is nothing remotely like what I've seen described in Lama Dorje's site. Perhaps I'm not far enough along in my training to be exposed to the "supernatural" stuff and perhaps our systems are very different but at this point I believe that what is needed is time, patience, commitment, and practice rather than a mysterious direct transmission from a master for a few hundred dollars... Where is the precedent in the history of internal development for achieving enlightenment without years of diligent effort simply for a fee?

Steve

Very good question Dwai...

It's like the difference between doing the taiji form vs feeling that the taiji form is doing me.

It's like using my intellect to guide me through the postures vs using the one point to feel the qi flowing through the postures.

Like the difference between doing nothing and not-doing.

I wonder if there is a parallel with yin/yang - yin is intuitive and receptive, opening to subtle influences without trying or causing, yang is more analytical, intellectual, taking initiative to explore, inquire, analyze.

Very cool question to ponder...

Steve

When you say "Myself" is that your higher self or your Shen?

WHen I figure out who is saying "Myself" I'll ask...

PS Here's my first revision after some thought...

1. Zhuangzi

2. Alan Watts

3. Osho

4. Thich Nhat Hanh

5. Ourself

1. Zhuangzi

2. Alan Watts

3. Osho

4. The Dalai Lama

5. Myself (whatever that means...)

After reading many of the threads here on people like John Chang, Wang Li Ping do you guys think its possible to achieve these powers from internal arts suchs as Taiji, Bagua, water boxing etc?

 

If not what do you feel these arts lack in order to achieve the powers of john Chang or Wang Li Ping as well Lama Dorje?

 

What is there secret behind geting such abilities?

 

WYG

Do you mind describing what types of supernormal powers you are referring to specifically?

Steve

I didn't find it incredible. His students set up a cooperative frame and then it's easy to pop the frame.

How useful is it against an uncooperative opponent? Or someone a limp frame? He couldn't do it against either.

I agree with Buddy. It's easy to push an opponent who is rigid or coming in with force - it looks good to an audience and does demonstrate good timing and rooting. Not so easy when the opponent yields. Fajin is short and explosive, and, when done right, is very hard to yield or neutralize. You can't really see the effect as much as feel it when you're on the receiving end. It penetrates. It does damage inside but doesn't necessarily look impressive from the outside. When you watch him closely, he's pushing out and up and his hands are moving a good distance. An is a downward press, not an upward push, and it's very short with a sinking of the wrists - this video is a parlor trick and lot's of people use it to demonstrate their "internal power." He may have a very high level of skill, I don't mean to denigrate his ability, but pushing a cooperative student in this way is not the way to demonstrate it.

Standing meditation is not limited to "no thought." My shi-ye has taught me two standing techniques that involve guiding qi with the mind of intent. He didn't teach me these techniques until about 1 year after beginning my sitting practice. There is some similarity to sitting in that the yi quides the qi. One is a technique for building strength in the body, the other flexibility. Both are designed for martial development. Neither is specifically related to chakras or to the meridians or microcosmic or macrocosmic orbits.

We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children....

Native American

I can think, I can wait, I can fast.

Hesse; Siddhartha

Whether one believes in a religion or not, and whether one believes in rebirth or not, there isn't anyone who doesn't appreciate kindness and compassion.

The Dalai lama

Steve

Greetings all,

My name is Steve and I'm a student of Dao meditation, Qigong, Taijiquan, and Xingyiquan. I just stumbled upon this forum and thought I'd check it out. I look forward to seeing what goes on here and sharing my interest in cultivation with similarly minded folks.