Iskote

Nice words Magus. The accomplishments of others can inspire and motivate us to work harder towards our own goals, and thus help us to achieve more that we might have otherwise. Happiness, sadness, achieving and not achieving, etc., are all part of the mosaic of life. From our various experiences we hopefully learn and grow. In my view, it is not so good to dwell too much on any one aspect though, as it may cause too much imbalance in our life. If one is feeling down, practicing martial arts is always a good way to help bring things back more into balance. We should be grateful to the many martial arts practiitioners and teachers who came before us, and who helped develop, perfect, and pass on the various martial arts and related practices, so that we can enjoy the benefits today. Best wishes from Iskote...

I don't think Taoism had a clear unifying thread through it for its whole history. Nevertheless, the Tao Te Ching and the Chuang Tzu have probably been required or recommended reading in most branches of Taoism, if not all. All of what has become to be known of Taoism is filled with quite different or even contradictory practices and beliefs, but it is all still lumped under the term of Taoism. Such is what Taoism is. It has many different aspects, with different branches choosing and combining the different aspects in different ways, but all are part of what is known as Taoism as a whole. It is what it is. No one ever said it all has to make sense. Best wishes from Iskote...

I think it depends on which texts one is referring to. The Tao Te Ching and Chuang Tzu are included in the various versions of the Taoist Canon, and although the Taoist Canon is a much looser and fluid collection of texts than say the Bible, it is still very influential for most branches of Taoism, from what I can gather, although different branches emphasize different sections of it. The Tao Te Ching and Chuang Tzu might roughly equate to books in the bible. Best wishes from Iskote...

Yes, I have also read of the Taoist concept of the underworld, or the yin realm. I believe it iis part of the beliefs of main stream religious Taoism. For example, see this article: http://eng.taoism.org.hk/daoist-beliefs/co...ony/pg2-2-3.htm From what I have gathered, it is believed that ordinary people's spirits or souls (not sure which is the correct term) all go to the yin realm when they die. There can be much suffering in the yin realms just like is described in the concept of hell. It is only immortals or sages who transcend to the immortal realms when they die. The beliefs in the underworld may have originated in Chinese folk religions, but the beliefs do seem to be part of main stream religious Taoism. I came across a reference that used these terms to describe the Taoist underworld or yin realms: Ying Jian - 阴间 - The Realm of Yin You Ming Shi Jie - 幽冥世界- The world of the spirits Yin Cao Di Fu - 阴曹地府 - The Underworld in the Yin realm Best wishes from Iskote...

A short clip and a little hard to see, but his movements look very integrated and well executed to me. Liu He Ba Fa demonstrated by Zhang Xiaoyuan: I believe Zhang Xiaoyuan lives in Shanghai. Here's a little more info: http://www.liuhebafa.ca/?page_id=3 Best wishes from Iskote...

Thanks for the links. I have come across a few other websites that have info and articles on Liu He Ba Fa as well. Its starting to get a little easier to find info on Liu he Ba Fa these days. Best wishes...

I believe the book listed at that website by Zhang Changxin is no longer available through that website except to students of Zhang Xiaouan, but it would lilely be an interesting book. There are a few other books on Liu He Ba Fa available in English though. Best wishes...

Hi dc. I am somewhat surprised that you have interpreted my words in this way. I was niether downplaying the importance of practice or dhyana, or the importance of Dharma. I was also not speaking about knowledge in any way. When I spoke of expectations, fixations, and imaginings, I was speaking of how we may be blind to many of the fetters that bind us without ever suspecting it, although we may imagine we have a handle on it and believe we know just where we stand. I personally thnk that is at least one possible reason we have the Dharma, although how we view and understand the Dharma likely will change over time as our views and understanding change. That's why I am curious how others view such things. It seems to me that by comparing and contrasting views, one sometimes gains new insights, or comes to realize how we have been limiting ourselves without realizing it, even if it is just in an very small way. Practice is another matter which I actually happen to think is very valuable. I obviously have to work on my communication skills. Thanks for the links. Best wishes from Iskote...

Hi dc! It's quite alright. Perhaps I have done enough homework. Cookie cutters can have rather limited use. Thanks for the thoughts. Sometimes things are not always as they might seem. Our expectations and fixations and imaginings may mislead us and we may be the last to ever suspect it... Best wishes and thoughts from Iskote...

Shiva Bala Yogi or Shivabalayogi Website: http://www.shiva.org/ Here's a video: Best wishes from Iskote...

This is my take on it: The names are usually descriptive of the movements, although sometimes fairly loosely and with a lot of poetic license. Phoenixes, dragons, cranes, tigers, monkeys, snakes, stars, moons, the sea, etc. appear a lot in many martial arts and qigong names, and usually help to give an idea of the feel of the movement as well. Movement names may sometimes have borrowed from other martial arts or other arts, like in the example I gave for 'Playing the Pipa'. Because of that and the fact that many names may have originated many centuries ago, it may be pretty hard to trace a movement name to its exact original source. You probably won't go too wrong if you look at most of the names as trying to convey not only the feel of the movement, but they may also give some idea on how the movement is done. For example, I don't know what the movement 'DOUBLE DRAGONS LEAP FROM THE SEA' looks like, but I would hazard a guess the name is indicating that two of something is rising up or making a bounding motion, or something along those lines. So, maybe the two arms are raised up from a lowered position or swayed as if bounding or something like that? Various forms can sometimes go through quite a bit of changes when passing from teacher to teacher, so it is possible that sometimes certain movements may not resemble the original movement too much. I am basing that on the many different ways I have seen various movements done in 'Yang' style tai chi as taught by different teachers from various backgrounds and schools. Sometimes the movements are almost unrecognizable, although they retain the same name. Sometimes movement names may hold more meaning than just trying to give a feel or description of a movement, but who's to say unlesss the originator passed that information on in some way. If this info was passed on verbally, those meanings may well have changed when passing from teacher to student over many times, I would guess anyway. Best wishes from Iskote...

This website has various videos on the topic of Kriya Yoga: http://www.babajiskriyayoga.net/english/vi...os/welcome.html Best wishes from Iskote...

Many say Lao Tzu was a great sage. He wrote of his understanding and views of the 'way'. He wrote of cultivating virtue, freeing the self of attachments, and following the 'natural way'. He also left sign posts for others cultivating the way. The problem is not everyone is an enlightened sage. Many practices, traditions, and beliefs arose from people of various views and persuasions, based on their understanding, beliefs and views, and all claiming to be of the way. Just because various traditions and practices arose and carried on for a long time, and which claimed to be, or were referred to, as 'Taoism', it doesn't necessarily mean that they are all good, or are really of the way that the sages spoke of. That is not to say that good traditions did not arise and get passed on, but we need to use some judgement here is what I am suggesting. That is not to say it is an easy task. Most of us are not sages so our own judgement is clearly going to be lacking in many cases. I know, many may disagree... That is 'natural'. I don't think Lao Tzu wrote about how to have better orgasms, or how to increase sexual prowess, or how to jump up to the roof of your house in one bound, or how to be the best in martial arts, or how to become famous, or how to develop super powers, or how to become rich. It seems to me he did write about freeing the self from such attachments, cultivating virtue, and gave hints about cultivation, and described sign posts of what may be experienced in cultivating the 'way'. Regarding 'naturalness', this is open to much interpretation based on one'e level of understanding, personal leanings and beliefs, etc. What one may interpret as natural function or action from their perspective, may not be at all what the sages were referring to when discussing higher cultivation. If one is thinking why can't one cultivate the way and 'enjoy' themself along the way as well, this is really a focus on the attachments of self, and is likely not what the sages such as Lao Tzu were referring to, IMO, even though one may think that such things are 'natural'. That is just my own personal view. Nothing more... I am not suggesting that one needs to suffer either. Just suggesting that removing attachments is no small task for most of us. It seems many practices and traditions arose that have a view of 'naturalness' that appears different, at least to me, than what sages such as Lao Tzu were speaking of, but, again, this just my view. There are many, many views. One has to be practical, but what is 'practical' is open to interpretation too. There are many practices and traditions claiming to be of the 'way', or of 'Taoism', as it is referred to. Again, that doesn't necessarily make them practices that are truly in line with what the sages spoke of. So many speak of 'Taoism' as if it is some single clearly defined set of practices and beliefs. Such is not the case at all, from what I can see. Questions about what does 'Taoism' think about this or that, show a misunderstanding about what has become to be known as 'Taoism', IMO. There are no clear cut answers. There are various traditions that might have some semblance of an agreed upon view from each particular tradition's perspective, but the traditions have been evolving over time as well, as the times and people's views change. I think it is good to keep this all in mind when discussing 'Taoism'. Personally I think I am going to avoid the term 'Taoism' as much as possible from now on, due to the above described reasons. Anyway, just some thoughts from my current perspective. Nothing more... Best wishes and thoughts from Iskote... [Edits: Fixed some of my many spelling and grammatical mistakes. ]

Here's a video of a guy doing some qing gong basic training: This video of Zhou Ting-Jue AKA 'Master Jo' is also pretty interesting as well. He does his qing gong demo towards the end of this video. His qigong healing technique shown in the first part of the video is interesting as well. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWCn8PkHeuk...feature=related Best wishes from Iskote...

Like many esoteric writings, the words in the Tao Te Ching can be interpreted and taken in different ways. It is true that virtuosness can't be forced, but that doesn't mean that one can't work on cultivating virtuosness. The Tao Te Ching can be read as a description of what it is like to be a sage, it can also be read as a guideline on how to cultivate the way of the sage. It also can be read as a practical philosophical guide as well. Personally I thnk it contains all of these aspects. The philosophical and other guidelines described in the Tao Te Ching can be used as a guideline for cultivating virtue. By cultivating virtue, one begins to cultivate the way. That's my personal take on it anyway. Best wishes...

To clarify my position, I am not passing judgement on any of the many practices out there that are referred to as Taoist, I just think it is worth contrasting what is in the Tao Te Ching and possibly some of the other early classics, and the many practices that are out there and which are labelled Taoist practices. I emphasize again that what has been come to be known as 'Taoism' is actually comprised of many different traditions and practices, and that just because these many traditions and practices are all referred to as Taoism, the various practices may not necessarily all be in line with the 'way' that Lao Tzu and other sages were speaking of. My view is that one should use their judgement in these things. Maybe that is obvious to people who are more familiar with the history of Taoism , but based on some of the posts I see here from time to time, many people do seem to think that Taoism is some fairly clear cut, well defined, homogenous system. Such is not the case at all. The Tao Te Ching had a strong influence during the formation of formalized Taoism, and as best as I have been able to determine, Lao Tzu was revered by many, if not most, Taoists as either a great Sage or even a Deity. He was often referred to as the 'Exalted One' by many Taoists, from what I have read. Anyway, it is not unusal for people of various religions to tend to pick and choose portions of scriptures, and ignore other portions, or 'interpret' (read distort ) written passages in a way that is suitable to their personal leanings and purposes. This only reinforces my point that people should keep such things in mind when looking into the various practices that are are referred to as 'Taoist' practices. Best Wishes...

Roger that. It is not even certain that Lao Tzu was an actual person I think, and that the Tao Te Ching may have been derived from teachings of more than one person, but it was a very long time ago so who knows? At any rate, I think there is no doubt that the Tao Te Ching had a strong influence on the development of Taoism. Best wishes from Iskote... OK, yes, good point. Some later forms of Taoism were definitely influenced by Buddhism and Confucianism. However, the Tao Te Ching does seem to make it clear that seeking fame and fortune and the like are not beneficial in cultivating the way. I can see how later forms of Taoism that were influenced by Buddhism and Confucianism might possibly give less importance to some of the Taoist works, but I haven't ever come across anything specifc in that regard. Best wishes from Iskote...

Ok, but I wasn't at all referring to practical actions people may do to improve themselves, or improve their skills used in their livelihood and the like. I was specifically talking about actions that are mostly self indulgent or which are harmful to oneself or to others. For example, one might practice lightness qigong and eventually develop the skill to jump up to the roof of their house in one bound. This can be a useful skill to have for self defense, or for otherwise getting out of dangerous situations, or for negotiating very rough terrain, etc. So, depending on one's living circumstances, this might be a practical skill to work on. On the other hand, if one is spending large amounts of time trying to learn such a skill with the main intent to impress people and gain fame and fortune, then that to me is just self indulgence. As I said before, we do have to be practical and live our lives, but when what we are doing starts moving more into the realm or self indulgence or excess, it would seem to me to be at odds with what is written in the Tao Te Ching. Which Taoists in the East do not consider the Tao Te Ching an important work? I have not known a lot of Taoists (those that are official members of a Taoist sect), but I have personally never come across any that have said that or wrote that. Perhaps the people you are referring to are not really formal Taoists, but just lay people who refer to themselves as Taoists and who take that view? Really the whole concept of Taoism as being a single coherent system seems to me to be the source for a lot of confusion, as I mentioned previously. There are no doubt lay people who may refer to themselves as Taoists and who are not official members of any accepted branch of Taoism. That further adds to the confusion. There are all kinds of practices these days which are using the label of Taoism, but the roots of many of these practices may not really be related to any form of Taoism at all, or are only just loosely related. Using the term Taoism can be a popular selling point these days as well, so the term seems to be getting even more abused these days for that reason as well. If the Tao Te Ching is an important text in most accepted forms of Taoism (which I am not certain it is in every case, but it does seem to be for the most part), then it would seem to make sense to use it as a guide for helping sort through the various practices that are being presented as Taoism these days. Again, just my point of view. Just offered it up for consideration... Best wishes from Iskote...

Ok, but I wouldn't see such things as side paths. Self indulgence is self indulgence, but you are probably right that there are varying degrees to such things. Lao Tzu seemed to be of the view (based on my understanding of his writing) that there are immutable laws in this universe that we are all subject to. All actions have their consequence. Actions involving self indulgence, greed, and causing harm to others will not bring good consequences, but virtuous and selfless actions bring good consequences and are an integral part of cultivation of the way. Again, that's just my personal interpretation of what is written in the Tao Te Ching. As always, written words are often open to various interpretations. It seems to me all forms of Taoism hold the Tao Te Ching as an important text, but maybe there are/were branches of Taoism that give/gave less importance to it, I don't know. Anyway, I just thought it was interesting that various practices and views that are often referred to as 'Taoism' seem to be at odds, to varying degrees, with what is written in the Tao Te Ching. The Tao Te Ching is part of the Taoist Canon (all variations of the Canon from what I can gather), but maybe some branches of Taoism gave less importance to it than other branches of Taoism. Best wishes from Iskote...

My view is there are many views, so what you are saying does not seem to me to be at odds with what I have said. We each have to make our own decisions using our own judgement, and go our own way. Lao Tzu wrote of being virtuous, not striving, stilling the mind, and keeping things simple, and results will come naturally. Why then do people complicate things with various complicated practices? Perhaps because if it seems too plain and simple it does not appeal to or suit the mind and ego. My view is just one view amongst many. Nothing more. "It appeals neither to the eye nor the ear, yet its supply is inexhaustible and its usefullness everlasting." Best wishes from iskote...

Did you notice that the monk is using a pillar that allows him to grip the sides of the pillar with his feet? A person with strong legs and feet could probably take a lot of weight off their supporting finger by gripping the sides of the pillar with their feet. You would still need a very strong finger though, no doubt. In the video of Hai Deng doing that feat (yes, I know some say it was faked), he is just leaning his feet against a wall. No chance for gripping with the feet there. That would appear to me to be a more difficult way of doing it. Best wishes from Iskote...

Yes, that may well be the case, but if one is placing importance on enjoying themself, then I don't think there can be real detachment there, which is more what I was alluding to. I really just wanted to present that as a contrast to some of the many views and practices that are being referred to as 'Taoism' these days. Also, I think the term 'Taoism' is often used these days more for its marketing impact than anything else.

It depends on what you type of qigong you are practicing. Some types of qigong have specific purposes and are done to direct qi in a specific way. From my personal experience, I can say that the wuji and embracing the tree forms of zhan zhuang will cultivate energy in a way that brings balance to the energy in the whole body. However, you may not necessarily feel energy going to a specific problem area when practicing. It might be that there are other imbalances that need to be corrected first. For example, sometimes you may feel a problem in a certain area in your body, but when you practice zhan zhuang or another stillness qigong form, you may feel your energy active in some other area of your body. This may go on for days or weeks or months. However, after some time you may feel the energy has worked through the other area it was active in during your practice, and low and behold the problem in the other area suddenly gets better. That is why stillness qigong such as zhan zhuang and sitting meditation are so good in my opinion. Where you think you need to direct energy may not be at all where the real problem lies. IMO, it's better to not focus on any problems at all and practice zhan zhuang or sitting meditation with a relaxed mind, and allow the energy to cultivate and circulate naturally as it will. It can take several years of diligent practice to really start truly opening up the meridians and channels in the body, so it's good to keep that in mind. (Beware of those who say otherwise ) Trying to direct energy in the early stages (first couple of years) may seem to bring some results, but you could also be hindering your overall progress as well with such practices, so in my opinion it is better to not focus on such things at all the first couple of years at least, and allow yor energy to build up and circulate naturally. If you want to get into practices that intentionally direct energy, you should really do that under the guidance of a trusted and competent qigong teacher. Just my opinion... Best wishes from Islote...

Welcome. The ways people view Taoism are many. As many as there are blades of grass upon the Earth. Maybe more... It only starts becoming a problem when people forget that views are just views, and actually start taking their views seriously. I talk here, sometimes quite a bit, but I usually don't have anything much worthwhile to say, so I usually just talk as a way to express my current thoughts and to see how those thoughts might elicit other thoughts from others. Once the thoughts have passed I try not to cling to them though... It seems to me that such is the way it is both within this forum and without... People express their views, but our views are always in a state a flux, even though we may not realize it... Best wishes and thoughts from Iskote...