Encephalon

Thank you for raising some important points. I think it sheds some light on the futility of consumer culture with it's suburbia, auto-dependency, wage slavery, time annhilation and the individualism run amok that has eclipsed the sense of community that once accomodated quality time (I'm going back many decades here). We're on our way out, in the midst of moving to an ecovillage, one of the few modern lifestyles that comes close to the sustainable villages of ancient times. We are under no delusions that we won't have our hands full, but it's quality time with likeminded souls and I'll still be able to squeeze in three hours of cultivation time in lieu of commuting, shopping, tv, not to mention the time availed by shared duties -meal prep, laundry, gardening, hunting, ranching and the like. I'll only have one kid though!

I will graciously recalibrate. Please note that "Buddhists" do not speak with a monolithic voice. I am of the agnostic/humanist stripe, and i only brought up Buddhism insofar as this particular insight into the nature of the self was pertinent, indeed necessary, to a fruitful discussion. I am generally incensed by the Buddhist Bombastic Bludgeoning that goes on in here, especially the stuff that originates from "beyond the realm of the five senses"!

Yep. I'd be curious to know how a thread about the nature of the Self (with a capital S, no less!) posted in a forum ostensibly devoted to Asian Studies can go on for Nine Pages without a single mention of Buddhism's Three Marks of Existence - Anicca - the fact that all phenomema are in a permanent state of flux or impermanence; Dukkha - the reality of suffering, the inherently imperfect or unsatisfactory nature of the phenomenal world; Anatta - the impermanence and illusory nature of a separate isolated self: no-self. I realize the OP has a less than charitable regard for Buddhist psychology, as well as a less than accurate grasp of its components, but these Three Marks characterize the essential difference between Western and Eastern theories of self. They may not be axiomatic but they are consistent with what modern psychology teaches us and what we know from our own postmodern realization, a point the Buddha nailed 2,500 years before we got around to it.

I am certain of one thing; I am grossly unqualified to hazard a guess. In the body of literature of the last 50 years that constitutes the "east/west dialogue," the main point of entry for Buddhism (the most psychological of the world's wisdom traditions)into Western culture has been psychology, especially psychotherapy. (I think that must be a quote from David Loy, if I'm not mistaken.) Even the dialogue between Western religious thought and psychology has long since revealed a deep consonance between the two -- "We need to realize that psychology leads us sooner or later to religious experience, while religion can only be brought home to the individual through essential psychologtical facts." MICHAEL FORDHAM To try and extricate one from the other is not something I could do successfully, but it seems plain enough that the task of eliminating our egocentricity is prerequisite for both enlightenment and psychological maturity, and by egocentricity I mean not only its belligerent manner but in the insidious patterns of depression, weak ego strength, low self-esteem, despondency, hatred turned inward, and any of the thousand hybrid sociopathologies that our culture is currently suffering with. I've met people who can describe brilliant socioeconomic theories replete with mechanisms for social justice and global sustainability... and they can't figure out how to pay the rent. They sound enlightened, but...

Yeah right, yadda yadda... I've met hundreds of people like you over the decades who remain so inept on the human front that they abandon it altogether and disparage it as an impediment to the loftier goals of spiritual development. I suppose you're not so evolved that you can't abstain from posting braggadocio on the internet, eh?

Mucho Gassho!

OMG. Yet another Cosmic Joker that can't get laid.

I'd like to revisit the original post and ask InnerSpace if he feels these responses are consistent with his assessment of the intellectual tradition he's described. The academic critical thinking movement is the latest manifestation of this tradition.

not

Some of you may be thinking "OMG. I see stacks of these books for a dollar at disintegrating strip malls." So far I've purchased four and I have to say they're very well written. I checked out the one on Taoism at the library and was so impressed that I whipped out the whole $8 and bought a copy from Amazon. I'm adding it to my essential list of books on Taoism for beginners (me) because it investigates Taoism by comparing it to different dimensions of western culture; Judeo-Christianity and philosophy, science and ecology, politics and pop culture. It starts with a pretty good history section. It does not have anything on internal alchemy. So I guess that makes 6 titles that I would recommend for absolute beginners. The others are - Opening the Energy gates of Your Body by Bruce Frantzis The Book of Nei Kung by C.K. Chu The Complete Book of Chinese health and Healing by Daniel Reid 365 Tao by by Deng Ming-Dao The Root of Chinese Chi Kung by Dr. Yang Jwing-Ming Books I have yet to purchase but have been recommended here are - The Way of Energy: Mastering the Chinese Art of Internal Strength with Chi Kung Exercise by Kam Chuen Lam The Healing Promise of Qi: Creating Extraordinary Wellness Through Qigong and Tai Chi by Roger Jahnke I haven't abandoned the Chinese Classics! I just wanted to familiarize myself enough with the materials written for western audiences before I approach the Chinese classics. I must have 15 titles by Thomas Cleary but even those I have to be careful with. BTW, Cleary seems to have his share of fans as well as a few vocal detractors. Does anyone know if there is truth to the accusation that, while prolific, Cleary's translations are not accurate? Thanks in advance.

It's not research. It's a punk foisting his rightwing religious bullshit in places he knows he isn't welcome.

His fundamentalism was obvious the day he made his presence known here. Now he's simply being honest with his intentions. It's remarkable how completely twisted this kid is, given his utter lack of respect for our forum, the principles of Taoism, and his intellectual dishonesty, i.e., citing the documents of religious institutions as legitimate sources for scientific evidence. But this is is what young biblical fundamentalists do; strike discord amongst those they perceive as lost. Why people in this board tolerate it, why some even come to his defense, strikes me as one of the most disappointing events since I've been coming here.

My pregnant wife first pointed out how dreadful it smelled, and being the sensitive husband that I am I accused her of being pregnant and out of her mind (Not really.) But I too began to feel really turned off by the smell. It wasn't rotten - I just thawed it out, bought it at Trader Joe's - but has anyone had this experience? I don't remember it being this bad. Unfortunately our 14 yr old loves it, so we have to break down every once in awhile to keep her happy, but organic is 6-7 dollars a pound. What's the Taoist eco-alchemical spin on America's stock of ground up dead flesh? Is it the New World Order? And can we please get a barfing emoticon added to the list?

I haven't accused anyone of bigotry at all here, and you're out of line for even bringing this kind of rhetoric up, particularly since you have no idea what I do with my life, the reasons I pursued the course of study I did, and what my family and I do in the name of global sustainability, of which limiting meat consumption is only one tool we employ. But I seem to remember that you have a fondness for believing that you have psychic ability and can detect the details of what others do. Maybe you should channel someone other than the victim fairy when you write.

Sorry! Will you ever forgive me?

here's what a moderator from another board had to say to him. Any of it sound familiar? - Aging Technogeek wrote: 1. You do not have to reply to every response, but replying to none signals that you are not interested in the replies but only in posting the question. 2.You have read the PM I sent you and this post. I assume you are intelligent enough to understand the English language since you are Canadian. The limit is not on your posts it is on the posting of 20-30 inane, infantile, senseless questions daily in Open Chat. Especially since most or all of the questions can be easily answered by elementary use of Google, Yahoo, or another search engine. The prohibition against flooding this forum with questions like "What Operating System do hospitals use?" and others like it stands. Any posts of this type will be instantly deleted as soon as a moderator finds them or they are reported. You may post legitimate questions in the support forums about installation, getting wireless and other system to work, repairing problems with your installation and the like. If you use this permission to start another post flood with nonsense questions , you will be banned. One of the first rules in list at the top of every section of the forum is "Search for your own answers first before you post here" you have been ignoring that rule since the start. Even your early posts that may have been legitimate show no attempt by you to find out anything on your own. You even lose interest in the topic if the replies require you to do anything on your own. I checked every topic you opened in your first few weeks as a member and, in each case, as soon as it got to the point where you were asked or required to do something on your own, you stopped replying to the posters. You are at least what has been called a "Help Vampire" meaning you want everything handed to you without your having to do any work at all. If that is the case, I suggest you return to Windows because you will never succeed in Linux with that attitude. At most you are a deliberate troll. 3. A troll is a person who posts material in a forum with the deliberate purpose of causing disruption and disaffection among the forum members. The more disruption they cause, the more twisted enjoyment and satisfaction they get. This looks like what you have been doing for the past 3-4 weeks. Even if it is not deliberate, your actions have had the same effect as a troll would try for. This is the major reason for the prohibition against random posts in Open Chat."

Just a reminder - there are a couple dozen used copies of "Opening the Energy Gates of the Body" by Bruce Frantzis avaiable on Amazon for less than $10, and many others starting at 13 cents! Now's the time to grab a copy of this modern classic! http://www.amazon.com/Opening-Energy-Gates-Your-Body/dp/1583941460/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1301857383&sr=1-1#_

You guys are herding my feelings.

My apologies. I stand corrected on this point and I don't want to sound flippant. As a critical thinking junkie and occasional practitioner (with luck), I know that intellectual humility - the practice of not presuming to know more than one actually knows - tops the list of 7 Valuable Intellectual Traits. And late last night under the influence of fatigue, vicodin, emotionalism and anger I pretended to know more about taoism than I actually do. No doubt this is the first time this has happened in here, so I apologize for setting such an unfortunate precedent. Just kidding... about the last part!

Gaminess is coming in here and expecting the board to be your own private research tool for your bizarre questions instead of even bothering to read a book and giving it some thought yourself. Maybe showing a little respect for Taoism would be a start.