contrivedname!

exactly. i love the section in ecce homo where he is thankful for his shitty eyesight and constant migraines because they were an impetus for growth.

i was also thinking along the lines of the mentality you 'heard'. i think some folk are a bit hard on nietzche because he comes off as being extremely bitter and pesimistic; whereas zhuangzi makes people laugh (actually nietzche make me laugh too but im a weirdo, lol)

great play on words; herd vs. heard (if it was intentional:)) i find nietzche fascinating and while i dont disagree with a lot of his thoughts; hmmm they are poignant. i guess from my viewpoint i see these quotes as similar in that they use simlilar anaglogies to direct at a certain point. it is hard for one who is considered "elite" to understand.. - really - the mentality of the masses.

we thinks alike. part of my point in poasting was a matter of perspective. i like getting multiple viewpoints on the same subject; it helps the brain flow lol

my friend, i thank you for your candor. my laziness aside, i believe you have hit a nail on a head regarding my thoughts. Indeed- these two passages fall in conflict. the similarity i see is due to the metaphor; though there is more beyond that! this is a dichotomy between negativity and positivity to me. "stating" the "will to power" or whatever you wish to call it has a certain "sense". Am I optimistic or pesimistic, etc.? ... Ian Johnston trans. geneaology of morals nietzche Burton Watson trans. Chuang Chou many apologies for being remiss...

long time no see. thanx for the response. exactly; no sane person finds what is detrimental to them to be positive... or is that the case? i havent really thought about chuang tzu for some time; i'm glad to just have an opportunity to hit up daoist philosophy.

double-meaning? stairs to a basement are, on the other hand, also stairs out of a basement. TzuJan, you have just got profound on me (or am i projecting profundity onto you )

good point. "peyote" is their top 2 "best seller", behind "Orgasm", and to be frank (not bill) if this really induced a full-blown peyote experience, i doubt it would be so popular. if these beats hyper-stimulate the broca's area and neocortex, perhaps there is some analogy (in regards to, say, "LSD"). and "Adrenochrome"? have folks been watching too much clockwork orange and fear and loathing in las vegas? and DMT under prescriptions? DMT is a naturally occuring indole plant psychadellic. and as far as the addictive stuff goes, i do agree in principle with Kate that it probably isn't a good idea to do something that mimics the effects of crack, though i doubt this is possible solely through beats.

That is a wonderful statement cow. this reminds me of a saying attributed to bodhidharma "Ordinary mortals are the teachers of buddhas; buddhas are the teachers of ordinary mortals" or something to that effect. "where ever you go, there's a buddha" says the same thing. further along those lines you can precieve the strengths and wisdom that others have developed through their life experience in learning to deal with their own frailties and imperfections and be instructed thereby. they lean on you, you lean on them. Why did a novice monk take his seat by buddha? Vajra - Just a bit more: if someone is very 'attached' to their own path or if someone finds compassionate action through another teaching, might it be possible, if they take your words to heart, that you have just compounded their suffering or opened a door to it where none may have been before? i dont see why you insist that one path is the highest catch-all realization for everyone. What if someone was brought up in a buddhist paradigm and they have formed all sorts of attachments and fixations based on this? Would another dose of buddhism necessarily be the right thing for them?

thunderheart, if non-attachment is a basis of practice why do you attach so much value to the paradigm that buddhadharma is the only true path to liberation, blah, blah, blah? did you ever think that there is the chance that these are perhaps A) dogmatic interpolations encouragement for students already on the buddha path not to swerve and lose their focus and not to start creating a nest of views (i.e. they haven't 'left home' yet; or they are creating a new one through the buddhadharma)? think for yourself. eliteism is ignorant. mind structures vary. when one turns their back on delusion and stands before themself what the fuck does it matter how they did it? when one respects other traditions, their tradition shines. when one slanders others traditions it is as slandering their own and submerging it in darkness. "The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are good, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eyes are bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!" "Good friends, what are meditation and wisdom like? They're like a lamp and its light. When there is a lamp there is light. When there is no lamp there is no light. The lamp is the light's body, and light is the lamps function. They have two names but not two bodies. The teaching concerning meditation and wisdom is also like this." It seems in this comparison that Jesus and a zen buddhist have just given a very similar (not the same) description of wisdom. instead of slandering others paths and propelling yours above all others, why not try to find points of similarity and agreement and encourage comraderie among human spirituality. how many wars have been fought over dogmatism? how much suffering does war cause? isnt a buddhist supposed to have compassion for the suffering of any being? it is just because our views vary (as humans) that bodhisaatva's are instructed to develop skillful means: A student asked a zen master: why do you teach mind is buddha? to stop a baby from crying. when the baby has stopped crying, what then? then i teach, "not mind, not buddha" what about when someone is attached to neither? then i teach not beings what about when someone has no attachments, what would you say then? then i would let him be to experience reality the zen master realizes that the various teachings are not what is important, it is the outcome of such teachings. i have a theme song for you vajraji: Unction - 1. The act of anointing as part of a religious, ceremonial, or healing ritual. 2. An ointment or oil; a salve. 3. Something that serves to soothe; a balm. 4. Affected or exaggerated earnestness, especially in choice and use of language. G'Day!

Apep, that was a good definition. it seems reasonable and as you said it explains interconnection well without mystifying it, but drew off of an example from nature.

Hi Marb, The way i have read the "constant" when it has been referred to as such is exactly the state of change you refer to. Nothing is constant; this is exactly the constancy spoke of (in my view). To me this also points at a non-dual perception; also related to the talk of life and death being similar, inseparable states. So more simply stated "constant" means the function of dao, the interplay of all things (and non-things). In a sense, since we are human beings, restricted to our "passing of time" and structured to use our sense organs in tandem with our mind to precieve a fraction of reality... "How do i not know that in hating death i am not like a man, whom has left home and cannot find his way back"? thats the general idea from a zhuangzi parable, anyway. That says to me that the process of dao is inseparable and death is much your "home" as life. laozi mentions something about folks whom so full-heartedly embrace life, to the point of the denial of death, that they actually affirm death to the extreme, i.e. they cling to life so tightly, the fear of death is always looming over them. Just so you know marb, i am really glad you decide to keep posting discussion of daoist texts, these type of threads are the ones i enjoy the most.

Interesting. However, why is whore used as a negative example? because one is aware of the general malign in which prostitutes are held, so painting the view in opposition to yours as whore's makeup is holding in contempt the other style of view, by using negative examples about a group of people whom have been victimized, to a large degree. Fleeing desire? This smacks of another desire. Rather i feel it is important to "move towards" your desire if you truly wish to see its transience. to me, fleeing desire implies fleeing your essential nature. desire is born of your mind, where can you take refuge from your own thoughts?

This statement appears to betray his contempt for prostitutes. Those adultorous sinners; lets forget about the female trafficking and the exploitation that many of these individuals go through; for many whoring isnt a choice, it is done under duress and coercion. Knowledge of discriminations is boundless Proscribed constantly by those with rigid agendas What knowledge is required to posit unknowledge? Divinity denied, malice subliminated, is this compassion? The soul is constantly freed, by means of the steed After all, with what has intuition to breed? A slew of views Ends up being "knowledge" through and through