longrhythm

@Taomeow- she's not terribly sensitive, it's one of her more attractive qualities in my opinion. Regardless, I have a similar perspective as you, but with my guitar playing as opposed to singing (which I just don't do.) I remember being told to turn down every day, and over the years it settled in to me in some ways I'd rather have done without. Thankfully I've gotten through it, but who knows what my music career would have looked like had I come from a musical family... Ah well, could've might've would've all wastes of time. Point being I get where you're coming from and it's why I've been treating this delicately. @Rainbow- the dam is bursting... @unmike- it's too bad I don't enjoy singing and am pretty self conscious about it. I've been through enough pitch training to know sharpness and flatness within quarter tones, and I can produce that accuracy, but my voice texture is not something to write home about. Matter of fact I'd ask me to quiet down. @twinner- good to be reflective on your readings. Philosophy doesn't become reality til you put it into action. It's not about what you "think" about a situation as much as what you "do" about it. Here's an extreme example to illustrate- What about a crowded bus where the guy next to you is homeless and has shit himself? Are you going to "look for the beauty" in the shitstink? What makes your practice and study valuable in "this" life is how it informs your actions, and helps you navigate a "stinky" situation. My 2 cents. @ninpo- :D THIS is why I post here! I'm pretty sure it was Kevin Harts standup act, he said: "I dated a girl, she had one of those laughs that makes everybody else stop laughing" !!!!!! !!!!!!!!!! I have to admit, I remembered that line because so does the girl I'm dating! It's funny to think, but here I am a musician dating a girl who is not very easy on the ears... in general... although her speaking voice is fine. Really a small sacrifice in the greater scheme of things, the last girl I dated was a gorgeous singer, and a total emotional basketcase, so that gives me perspective. But it's ironic in the least. @micheal- very good tip. It will come in handy when she plays something I'm not interested in. Comes back to the ironic twist that she actually likes alot of the same music I do, and alot of times it hurts extra, cause while she's wailing I actually WANT to hear the music. @3bob- I haven't been on for some time, but it's no surprise to me the dick obsession is still going on. I admit I tried swinging weights, I guess that stuff just comes with the territory... @zerostao- perfect answer to 3bobs observation

@Marblehead- that's been my go-to strategy thus far. Works well for her She always laughs at the faces I end up making but hasn't put 2 and 2 together yet... @3bob- that might actually work, and no matter what would be hilarious! This will 100 percent be in the back of my mind @fivelement- just cause she's a good girl doesn't make it easier for me to hear. It's actually a plus point for her that we like the same music, but it becomes a multiplier in my painful moments, cause I actually WANT to listen, and have to struggle to tune all out. And nobody knows what other people don't tell them, by definition. But another good thing about her is that she's quick to tell me the things that annoy her. Man I had to go through a TON of passive aggressive women before I found one that speaks her mind... @Apprentice- 100 percent. And not. I'm well aware that this is funny, and I was laughing while I wrote it. But the pain of which I speak is very real. @Mal- Mal to the rescue!!! I'd guess you're a drummer. And I know that bad rhythmic habit cause I used to be self taught. I'd say if there was one thing above all else I got from music school it was learning to play through mistakes, totally crucial. And you're challenge kinda poetically sums up the challenge I think most of us are here to face- controlling what we can and surrendering to what we can't. Let me just take that opportunity to thank my years of practice for giving me the self control to NOT say just what I'm thinking when she's making up harmonies that don't exist to some of my favorite tunes! SeriesOfTubes- thank you for inspiring me in more ways than one! As a public speaker I have a new toy to play with and as a marketer I'm inspired by your precision and timing. Might mean nothing to you but let me just say form keyword alerts are a powerful tool I have severely underutilized. Nice to be back around the place guys, it's been too long!

What if you're seeing someone and you really like them and everything is going great BUUUUUT you're also a trained musician with a sensitive ear and she's REAAAALLLLY tondef and LOVES TO SING!!!! ARG I've tried "hey baby who sings this?" "let's keep it that way" I've shut off the music to put on the tv I've nudged every which way I can. How do I make this funny? I know I'm the one who would more likely be sensitive in her spot, since I'm a musician and pride myself on pitch accuracy. There's a very good chance she could care less. But since it's a big deal to me, it's hard for me to say anything without showing that it's a big deal, which would effectively make it a big deal. I don't wanna hurt her feelings, and I REALLY don't wanna hear her sing anymore!!! What would YOU do????

This is the most down to earth response yet. I've heard the same story from several women too- I always refer back to something Chia wrote, paraphrasing, about how in some couples the jizz becomes like a football on the playing field, and she'll fight to "win" it. I actually like when a girl gives me a hard time for not cumming, I get to tease her about it Truth is though, NO woman will continue to complain if you give it to her well and for a long time. There aren't that many other men like us out there that can go for hours and after you wear her out a few times, in my experience, all complaining of any kind ceases to exist.

Thanks for this Astral you got me thinking. First as far as the types of happiness, my experience has shown that it's not even possible to take happiness from the outside, the closest you can get is to "act as if". The only way I could start focusing on outside factors was to first build the happiness that comes from within through my practice to a point where it became reliable. In fact I'd go so far as to say that focusing on outside sources of emotional stimulation is actually dangerous until that lasting source from within is well established, since otherwise outside factors which are out of our control can send us spiraling. And yes, the service industry has made alot of people obese, but I also try to be humble regarding other peoples direction. While I wouldn't necessarily say a cheap compliment is worth anything, (and most people can tell when it's cheap), I also am wary of any truth someone might not want to hear, as it begs the question, who am I to bestow "truth" upon anyone? There's some talk in this thread on spiritual pride, which I have experienced myself, and apparently many others. I personally think it's a good thing, cause only having experienced it myself could I learn to watch for it when I start to exhibit it. http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/15228-the-experts-say-you-cant-take-it-with-you/ Personally I've fallen in a trap of false humility on many occassions, I wonder if I'm alone. There's an irony to it, I spent so many years criticizing others for their lack of humility, that I couldn't see the arrogance implicit in my own actions!

I agree meditation is important, and only recently I've begun to see it as a means to an end. My personal ideal would be to take what I learn in meditation and weave it so seamlessly into my waking life that I practice all day, like a self-sharpening knife. To Mal and Therion, I also would like to know more about where you're coming from. I've heard it said that complexity is a mask for poor understanding, and I certainly have used Taoist meditation to broaden my emotional palette, and develop my EQ. If there's a simpler and more effective road to the same result I'm all for it. Ironic that I'm asking you to complexify your already simple solutions, but meet a brotha halfway! LOL I love that movie. Lelu big bada boom.

This is a good point, and it raises a different angle on my initial question. When you define addiction by the impact it has on your lifes priorities, I need to go back to my initial concern about weed and booze. The fact is those things do have undeniably positive effects in my life, and my use of them has not interfered with my ability to tend to my priorities (at least not for a long time.) So does that then mean under those circumstances that weed and booze are not "bad" addictions? For me this part looked like I was distancing from my practice, but what it turned out to be was assimilation of the work, harvesting the benefits. Once I stopped meditating every day of course I stopped defining myself by it and priding myself on it. And at the same time I started to see the fruits of my labor appearing in my day to day life during other activities. Kind of a forest for the trees sort of thing. I second that. I know many of us keep our personal journals on here, and contribute to the forums, but I'd love to hear what role the written part plays for you vajra, as for me my personal journal, as well as my forum contributions have usually been kind of spontaneous in nature, less a structured or calculated part of my routine practices. Did I talk about avoiding pain? Whoops! I agree with you wholeheartedly that avoiding pain is a mistake, I'd say moving towards pleasure is a much better choice. I don't personally think I do it to avoid pain. Maybe when I was younger, but now it's more to add more pleasure to my already satisfying life. The fact is that I'm pretty normal by most peoples standards, but my goals in terms of my social development are what most would consider abnormal. For instance, I live in a densely populated city, where it's common to walk right past strangers with brief eye contact at most. But if I pass 10 strangers without talking to one, I feel a missed opportunity. Substances have helped me in the past to break that shell and make friends on the street where they may have responded skeptically had I been sober. I know what you mean about "felt" wisdom while high, my question is can you hold on to that feeling even after the THC totally leaves your system? I can usually hang onto a mental memory of the feeling, but it doesn't translate into the actual experience so much.

First to expel a misconception that I've fallen victim to in the past- The virtues are NOT opposite the emotions paired with them. As many of us have learned from Chia, the pairs are Heart - Hate Cruelty and Hastiness, Joy Honor and Sincerity Spleen - Worry, Openness Lungs - Sadness and grief, Courage and Righteousness Kidneys - Fear, Gentless Liver - Anger, Kindness Now as I said, for a long time I thought these were positive/negative pairs, complimentary opposites. This assumption made sense, since the emotion is negative, and the virtue is positive. Beyond that, even with a slight disconnect in each pair, each one still has an intuitive logic to it. I always figured since Taoism was founded on intuition, it makes sense that it's strung together by the very same. And then the missing piece hit me in the face. The reason there is an intuitive logic to the pairs as they exist is because the Virtues ALLEVIATE the negative emotions paired with them. So on this note, I find it helpful to actually create those complimentary opposite pairs we are looking for. Heart - Hate Cruelty and Hastiness are opposed with Love Hope and Patience Spleen - Worry is opposed with Self Assurance and Freedom Lungs - Sadness and Grief are opposed with Happiness and Gratitude Kidneys - Fear is opposed with Comfort Liver - Anger is opposed with Peaceful To me, this clarifies the virtues for what they are, and most importantly makes them actionable. All of us here can appreciate the power of intention, and focusing on the virtues themselves does not inspire action, as the intention is to cultivate a virtue, rather than EXEMPLIFY IT. What makes the virtues tangible in the real world, is to focus on the desired result that acting each one out should yield. Here's a simple example: If you want to be a great chef, do you daydream about the great chef you're going to be one day? Most successful chefs knew at some point early on that this was a path they would take, but they didn't get there by thinking about what qualities a great chef possesses. What most successful chefs focused on was the response they got from the people who ate their food. The qualities they develop along the way are simply an afterthought used to describe them as individuals. Their intentions were otherwise. This is how it is with the virtues as well, they only appear as an afterthought, while the intent of the virtuous is actually to inspire the positive emotion that virtuous action yields. I believe everything is done through relationships, and this is how I interpret the Tao. All the sitting practice in the world is meaningless unless it inspires you to treat others in a way that is representative of why we meditate in the first place. What this leaves us with is a new pairing- the virtue with the positive emotion it inspires. Heart - Joy, Honor, Sincerity paired with Love, Hope, and Patience Spleen - Openness paired with Self Assurance and Freedom Lungs - Courage and Righteousness paired with Hapiness and Gratitude Kidneys - Gentleness paired with Comfort Liver - Kindness paired with Peaceful And to take this from "just another concept" and turn it into an actionable plan- To be Joyful, Honored, and Sincere, strive to make others feel Love, Hope and Patience. To be Open, strive to make others feel Self Assured, and Free to express themselves. To be Courageous and Righteous, strive to make others feel Happy, and Grateful To be Gentle, strive to make others feel Comfortable To be Kind, strive to make others feel Peaceful Meditating in this way seems to put my results in overdrive, as I see the fruits of my labor popping up in even the tiniest exchanges each day. If you've read all this, try it out and let me know how it feels. Otherwise, what do you do to take your meditation out into the real world and make a difference? If you don't think you do use meditation to make a difference think again. And if you still think you don't, then why do you meditate?

Nail on the head! It's all about conflicting desires. One desire would be for peak physical health, and the other would be for peak social health. Many will say that they shouldn't be mutually exclusive desires, and I'm one of those people. The real question is, how do I take all the social skill available to me when I'm under the influence and carry it over to when I'm not. Huh? budum chh! Kinda what I'm getting at though. I depend on social fluidity to survive, so if I quit all social lubricants... I used to take that same "Bet you wouldn't be able to" stance. At some point I started to feel that was part of a divisive tendency I had that was hindering my relationships at large and I made a point of shifting away from it, and what I found was that so many people I never considered are at least struggling to take the journey. What I feel is that most people are only missing a system, but the stuff we're into is shockingly intuitive. (Makes sense since it was developed on intuition) I remember a friend of mine once was stressing because her father was very ill. I put my hand on her sacrum and said "I'm not trying to be weird, but feel this? This is a part of your body that is always calm. Whenever anything is freaking you out if you can feel what's going on there you'll be OK" She was really moved by that, and from that day on I can talk even the geekiest details of my Taoist practice with her and she's totally eager to learn. I've cultivated those nobler intentions of detachment and giving up manipulations, and I respect you for maintaining them. For me I just want a backdrop of needless formless to return to, while I navigate the "worldly" wants, needs, and motivations. That is how I celebrate the form I've been given right now. To me that's actually the point of developing the unnattached, formlessness, something I couldn't put better than I did here - http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/13915-i-have-cultivated-this-empitness/ Exactly! That's the predicament. Do you have to start from scratch when you take substance out of the picture? I've covered alot of ground under the influence, and it's not to say there wasn't development necessary. I can even remember a time when no amount of booze or weed would open me up enough to meet new people. So I've covered ground under the influence, next step is to take that ground and translate it to a sober state. And as you've correctly noted, easier said than done. What I meant by "what does that mean about the relationships?" is that to me, a successful relationship forged under the influence means I've naturally owned the experience of meeting them. Maybe I postponed naturally owning it to the second meeting, when I was sober, but I believe that what happens next in a relationship can retroactively "naturally own" the initial meet.

do you need to be still to have stillness? I think Lucky7 touched on this pretty well. Supposedly addiction is exactly something that has no end. I know we're about the journey, not the destination, and that's why I ask if it's an addiction. By our rationale, any addiction you have could be seen as a means to an end that hasn't yet been reached. It'd be fun to rationalize some- how bout gambling? If it's not wisdom I've acquired, then what is it? How come every time I go back to that altered state I have these resources available to me that I've developed in all the time I've spent in that altered state? And wouldn't you consider meditation an altered state, too? LOL SPOT ON D00d!!! Of course each of your points warrants it's own response, I'll try and be quick 1. I definitely feel I've used it this way. Funny enough though, it's also been the basis for some real life action. I've got a bunch of convos that I had in the flesh which were colored by my experience as a meditator. Can you think of one you've had? 2. I'd bet this drives most of us. At least for myself I'm alot more motivated to avoid pain than I am to seek pleasure. (That doesn't mean I don't seek pleasure 3. LOL GUILTY 4. I want to know what you mean by this- from a comparative stance is this something you'd say that sets us apart from those who don't meditate? Or do you mean this in terms of strengthening your relationships? I love it because it drowns out the hardship. And if the hardship is the preamble to naturally owning the experience (which sounds pretty legit on paper), then what does that mean about the relationships I've forged under the influence? (which are many) I meet em drunk and date em sober, and I'm not the best guy in the world to be with, but I've had some great ones, and some generally good feedback. How can I account for long term success with it's beginnings "in the muck"?

Supposedly, wisdom acquired in an altered state is only accessible in an altered state. I've experience this to be true. My "peak" state occurs right around now, when I'm up for about 2 hours after crashing hard at the close of last nights bender. Just the right amount of BAC and THC (that's booze and weed if ya need) in my body gives me access to all the social intuition I could ever want. Fact is at this point in my life, I'm fully aware that my success hinges on my ability to motivate people in a specific direction, yours does too. But I need the charm and gregariousness that comes from that "peak" state to even start the fire that will build the momentum. How many of you battle this? It's not a desperate situation, it's an aspiration. How many of you know just what it takes to get into your "peak" state where everything flows according to your intention, and want to eliminate some of the required steps? Meditation does some of the work, but even that is too much of a time sink. I'm talking about lasting change. Reaching a place where you don't need a certain behavior or substance to reach your peak state of flow, you just live in it. How many of you have ever questioned whether meditation is an addiction? And how can you distinguish between and addiction and a means to an end where the end is just so far you can't see it? Since you've read this far, answer my questions or tell me what's on your mind.

Yeah!!!

I think you touched on something valuable in mentioning religion. To me meditation is towards mastery of ones self. Religion is about surrendering to what is greater than ones self. I have found in my experience that these areas of "broken programming" have only become surmountable by turning myself over to the mercy of a higher power. Self mastery is necessary to find those areas of "broken programming", because as you accurately observe, facing limitations is hard enough on it's own. Personally, I have used meditation to ground me through the process of coming face to face with some very dark corners of myself, and deal with the challenges inherent in owning up to them. However, not until I turned myself over to something greater than me did I feel able to transcend, did I see myself begin to overcome. We can find our boundaries alone, but we need more than ourselves to expand beyond them. Just my two cents.