Detour

In Western Judeo-Christian culture, we have very strong concepts of good and evil. Actions are clearly identified as one or the other, and that they are opposing, that the twine shall never meet. In Taoism however, we see this as one of many Yin Yang, opposing distinctions that rely on each other for existance. What then, of Taoist morality? Do we seek to balance the two in our lives, sometimes doing good, at other times evil? No, the solution is mindfullness. First we must see that good and evil are an illusion, after all their definitions often change from culture to culture. Instead of the action in and of itself, we become mindfull of the consequences. Any given action has different reprecussions in different situations, so this does take practice. Take for example, an unwise rich man gives money to a passing beggar. Unmindfull of the stench of alchohol on the beggar's breath, the beggar spends the money on more booze. The wise passerby ignores the beggar's plea, granting the beggar at least a moment of sober reflection on his actions. So by ignoring what society calls good, in this case giving money to the poor, and examining the consequences of that action in its context, we can truly do the right thing. This is the way of Taoist morality. Always being mindfull of one's actions and their consequences.

I know, because I've been in both situations. I am a recovering alchoholic, and I can tell you from experience the worst thing you can do for a drunk is enable them, best let them fall so they realize what they are doing to themselves and sober up. I've been the son of a mother that relied on others to pay bills, she was disabled, and could not work herself. If it wasn't through the kindness of family, she and I would not have lasted. Humility into other's plight is a good thing, but if you know better, you do know better.

Hello all. For most of my life I've been athiest/agnostic (athiest in the sense of having no spiritual or religious beliefs and agnostic in the sense that I was aware I could be wrong). I really didn't feel a need or desire to change that. Culminating through experiences starting a year and a half ago, I realized for the first time that I too, needed to believe in something. What started as googling religions and ended with personal soul searching, I found spirituality I could see. One day I wrote down everything I had come to believe (it was actually a short list) and the friend I shared it with said it sounded alot like Taoism. So I started googling that, bought a copy of the Tao Te Ching, and have found everything I've read I agree with. There was no adoption of beliefs, it was all there! Now I've reached an impass. I've found my path, yet I know no other Taoists, and there is no meetingplace of any sort in my area. So, after three years of swearing off forums, I've joined one. Thanks for reading.

Thanks for the welcome, everyone! Thanks especially Stigweard for all the links! BTW, I did that average age poll, and it seems my vote tipped the three way tie, smack in the middle of the two other ties! lol, I am so average.... :'(

Actually I agree with you. To give with conditions is a coy way of buying something in return. The analogy is no doubt imperfect, the point is if we truly want to do good in the world, we have to look beyond our actions, we have to be mindful. In the case of giving, perhaps it would be better to be mindful of when we choose to give, rather than any reason for giving. After all, if we give all of ourselves all the time, while some may see this as saintly, realistically I think that person would become a doormat. Or perhaps who we give to? In this case, the analogy still stands, with an addition. The wise man refuses the drunken begger, instead gives to the lone mother. He asks nothing, claims no merit, and walks away. In this way he is still mindful, and gives without condition. Plus, a greater good is achieved, as the mother uses the money to feed her family. Again, I am sure there are holes in the analogy, the point is that it is not enough to do good, for the right reasons, the right way, but also to be mindful, taking time out to examine actions and consequences, which I do not see as conditions as they are never spoken nor assumed. All the man is asking himself is who to give to, the drunkard or the mother? And he gives it to who seemingly would put it to better use. After all, he is no psychic, the drunkard might very well buy food and the mother might very well hire someone to castrate the man that left her- but in *thinking* of the possibilities, and hopefully being right on occasion, we may cause greater good -in not just the action, but the consequence- in our lives.

No, actually had to google that. I always wanted to get into martial arts but never did. The closest I came to it was with a group of friends I used to have and we did some informal sparring. I know someone who studied Akido, pushing hands sounds alot like that, redirecting energy and such. He told me of a barfight he won without throwing a punch, kick, or anything. His back was against a brick wall, his attacker through a punch, and he deflected the punch a bit so the guy threw his fist right into the wall. Then he just walked off while the guy was clutching his bleeding fist.

For every piece of bad news I get in life, there's never a reason to panic or worry, or react to with anger or sadness; there's always a solution, waiting for me to arrive to. All I need to do is keep my head cool and look for it.