Nemo

Very well stated Freeform thank you for replying with such insight. I tend to live by the motto of truth beyond paradox. So to me confusion can be a blessing even if it is a bit annoying at times. I did not consider the destructive/creative dynamic of the two paths and I truly thank you for bringing that to my attention. It is something I will need to contemplate for awhile.

To start with the last first. The Hua Hu Ching was not written by Laozi. As is the way with many Taoist texts, the real author gave credit to "The Old Master" rather than take the credit him/their self. That said. If I sought some grand transcendental experience I would go back to communing with gods and other things with magick. However such things no longer interest me. My one and only goal is to reach the return at this point. I spend everyday being surrounded by the best and worst of humanity along with everything inbetween and long ago lost the idea of a black and white world. Rather I seek the primal simplicity that is spoken of in the Tao Te Ching. The more complex things seem, the more distracted we are by the 10,000 things. That is why I am trying to unravel the knot of complexity so that I may finally see with eyes unblinded by the 5 colors. To say something is true, instantly makes it false and to say something is false, instantly makes it true. That is the prime lesson I have learned from Zuangzi so far. Of course my saying that makes it untrue so I have learned nothing at all. I feel like I'm constantly being beaten over the head by a Zen master these days. That is one reason why I put this question to the forum, being unable to clear my mind enough to understand I was hoping to gain some insight from those here.

In the Hua Hu Ching it says the following. Do you wish to free yourself of mental and emotional knots and become one with the Tao? If so, there are two paths available to you. The first is the path of acceptance. Affirm everyone and everything. Freely extend your goodwill and virtue in every direction, regardless of circumstances. Embrace all things as part of the harmonious Oneness, and then you will begin to perceive it. The second path is that of denial. Recognize that everything you see and think is a falsehood, an illusion, a veil over the truth. Peel all the veils away, and you will arrive at the Oneness. Though these paths are entirely different, they will deliver you to the same place: spontaneous awareness of the Great Oneness. Once you arrive there, remember: it isn't necessary to struggle to maintain unity with. All you have to do is participate in it. Hua Hu Ching chapter 48 Brian Walker translation In my own practice I find myself switching back and forth between these two paths which can make things more complex than needed. Thus I thought I would ask those on the forum which path they follow and why that given path and not the other?

I can not speak concerning the david Icke style reptoids however I have had a naga patron for several years now. Whether she is real or not is another matter, but she has aided me many times and has given knowledge to me that I was not aware of before. I will try to answer your questions based on my experiences with Kenya. 1.What is she? She is a very powerful spirit of some type, perhaps even a godform. The legends state that she was the one to protect Siddhartha Gautama from harm until he could gain enlightenment. 2.Where do they reside? According to legend she resides in a realm between where humans are and where the asura are. This realm is believed to be a large series of caves that encircle the whole planet. My experience tells me that she is in the lower reaches of the astral. 3. What is her physiology? Likely the same as most spirits, a matrix of electromagnetic energy that can with enough effort manifest itself in a physical form for brief periods. 4. How does she live and what is her behaviour? She seems to feed off of life energy, chi if you will. She has always acted like a stern but caring teacher to me. All she has ever asked of me is that I continue my practices. 5. Her origin and history? This is complicated. She has never told me directly about this and most of the legends concerning her are forgotten except in a handful of Burmese temples where naga worship is still practiced. What the legends do say is the when the demon world learned that Siddhartha Gautama was near enlightenment, they sent armies and assassins after him. The Devi saw this and asked the queen of the nagas to take Siddhartha down into her realm and to guard him until it was time for him to become enlightened. For this deed she was given the title of protector of those seeking enlightenment and guardian of the treasures of the deep. I think this story is symbolic rather than historical, but who am I to say. 6. What is she known as in different cultures and religions? Culture wise there are legends about the naga queen in most eastern nations with Burma, Thailand, and India having the most. All the legends I have heard depict her pretty much the same with the exception of Thailand where nagas are seen as less human and more animalistic. As for religions, Burmese folk religion treats her as a goddess to be feared and appeased. Hindu legends treat her as a slightly demonic, but noble spirit who protects those on the Path. Other than that I do not know what other religions would make of her. 7. What is her relation to us? I can only tell about her relation to me. She is a a spirit who aids me follow the Way, though the path she leads me on is a rather complex one. 8. What is her modus operandi? She attracted me to a $1,000 statue of her. At the time I was dead broke and in a moment of inspiration I told her that if she provided the money I would purchase the statue. A month later I had $24,000 in the bank and bought the statue. She has always used statues of herself to communicate with me and it has always been simply hearing her voice in my head. 9. Does she help or harm me? While I do not always understand her directions at the time she gives them, they have yet to lead me astray. Thus I suppose helps me. 10. What did Max say about them? This I have no clue on. Now with all that said, does any of it matter? The nagas, reptoids or what have you are simply more of the 10,000 things. Instead of worrying about them, would it not be better to focus on the return? To study these things out of curiosity is one thing, but be careful not to let them overtake your life like happened to Icke. In the long run they matter only as much as the trees or the birds or the air. If they are out there, then they are but unless one is eating or probing you I wouldn't give them much thought.

Homosexuality: It depends on the sect of Taoism you follow, some view it as an aberation going against the yin and yang. Others just don't care. However you should think on this the Tao Te Ching says that the ten thousand thing carry the yin on their backs and embrace the yang. We all contain both male and female within us. My sister is bi and when she is with a woman she becomes the agressive one, but with a man she is the submissive one. To me this reflects her balance and even though she may be with another woman, she comes to represent the yang in order to balance the other womans yin. Preaching: Preaching in it's basic form is simply telling some one that you are right and they are wrong. It has nothing to do with comforting others or helping them. From the Taoist perspective all views are valid and false, so how can you declare that you are right and others are wrong? This does not mean that Taoists have never preached, read up on Zhang Jiao and the yellow scarves rebellion. It is true that people like to be given answers rather than having to find them, but any answer that is given away is by it's very nature corrupted by the giver's own views. There are religious Taoists who speak of a vast heavenly hiearchy and who perform rites for the dead to get them promoted in the afterlife, so if you feel the need for this type of belief, look into religious Taoism. Wu Wei: Wu wei is difficult to explain. I do not even know if my understanding of it is correct, but this is how I view it. Have you ever had a series of odd coincidental events that just seemed to lead you into a given situation without any real work on your part to make it that way? Jung called it synchronicity, it's no surprise that when he came up with the concept of synchronicity Jung had been studying the Tao among other things. Wu Wei is not being lazy as some one practicing it still accomplishes what needs to be done, rather it is simply doing things as they need to be done without forcing things to be done. Think about writing, you spent years in school learning to write until it became second nature, now when you write you no longer have to even think about how the letters are formed or in what order to put them to make words. This is another example of wu wei and is why Zuangzi stressed practicing a given skill until it became second nature as can be seen in the story of the butcher carving the ox. To practice wu wei one must act without thought about the action. Doing what you feel is simply following your desires and the Tao Te Ching clearly states that desires should be diminished. You will know you are experiencing wu wei when the synchronicities start to pile up. This is the best that I can answer your questions based on my own views and limited understanding.

Which definition do you want? In the Catholic sense it means the rule of dogmatic law, What is declared by the pope here on earth is in turn obeyed by heaven. To most other Christians it normally means that the laws of God should also be the laws of man. To occultists it means that the macrocosm and the microcosm influence each other. In other words a human [microcosm] can influence the whole universe [macrocosm] and in turn the universe holds influence over each human. These are the concepts I know connected to this term.

I'm currently in Seattle Washington. I also know of at least one group of practicing Taoists here who meet up once a month for discussions.

Most interesting responses. After reading the Tao Te Ching multiple times in multiple translations I've come to the idea that much of it is layered in meaning, so that one chapter could represent many things. Thus part of my interest in how others on this forum understood this passage. Shazi: Zuangzi's account of this is one of my favorites. If one looks at it from a modern physical perspective the negative and positive charges and the multiplication of living things does make perfect sense. I thank you for going into such detail and it is interesting to see the literal translation of the Chinese, it gives me a few new concepts to mentally play with. Rain: I am finding that I like Cleary's style and am currently reading two books translated by him. I do not have the Dragon's Gate yet, but I am sure in time I will have a chance to read it. It sounds like a most interesting read and may open some new understandings for me. MatthewQi: There is little chance of my becoming obsessed with the 123. It is simply one of many things I focus on until my mind can't take it any more and becomes blank. Paradox and incomprehensibility are my close friends. Because of the belief system I come from I tend to view reality as a matter of mind, to the point where I even doubt the reality of things that are outside of my current experience. i.e. Does a person who I talk to exist once they leave my sight and thoughts? To me the 123 have come to represent the nature of thought where in one represents the first thought within mind, that by it's very nature leads to a second thought and then a third and this cascades into all the countless little thoughts that plague us daily. As stated above I am starting to think that the Tao Te Ching is so layered in concept that there could be countless "true" ways to understand even this one passage. Thinking on this in turn leads my mind down a maze of possibilities which in turn paralyzes it and everything becomes empty and beautiful. My limited understanding is likely to be way off, but for now it seems to bring me closer in accord with the Tao whether it is right or wrong.

Tao gave birth to One, One gave birth to Two, Two gave birth to Three, Three gave birth to all the myriad beings. Chapter 42 lines 1-4 John C.H. Wu translation. I have spent the last few weeks thinking on this part of the Tao Te Ching. I know that some religious Taoists take it to represent the three divine forms of Laozi. I have also read that some modern Taoists take it to represent the nature of evolution. After some thought I've come to think of it as the nature of mind. I would be interested in what those on this forum make of this cryptic message.

The body goes where the mind leads. I use various methods to calm the mind, if the mind becomes still enough then desire of any type is greatly diminished. Once the desire is diminished it is much easier to redirect the energy. Focusing on the breath is the main method I use for calming the mind. Then I redirect the energy either through being on the go constantly or through basic internal energy manipulation and meditation. Keep in mind it took me years of trying before I started having any success in diminishing the desire. Do not expect instant results, nor fault yourself if you backslide. It is a slow process to alter the way the mind thinks and the best advise I can offer is to return to the breath, all other things will follow that. On a less mental note, physical exertion will go a long way in steming the desire for sex. Staying active till the point of exhaustion will hinder most people's sexual desire. So I suppose in short it boils down to exercise and breathing. If you are serious about staying chaste, I suggest you start looking into the methods of Buddhist and Yogis. Both groups have developed many methods of drawing the mind away from physical desire. One question for you though is why? To promote chastity is against the flow of nature and thus conflicts with many Taoist concepts. There are many reasons for remaining chaste, the question is are the reasons helpful or harmful to your life.

I have been celibate for several years. When the mind and body no longer seek a mate, the energy saved can be put into other areas. In my case that energy used to be put into theurgy, these days it is put into trying to hold down two [soon to be three] on call jobs, which means sometimes going days without sleep or food. I have found that like all desires, the psychological need for mating can be diminished and redirected into other areas. The main problem with this is that it can redirect itself into unwanted areas including mental illness or agression, so one must be careful to control what replaces the sexual needs. Keep in mind is that physical touch is needed to stay healthy and by nature humans seek touch through our sexuality. If one is celibate too long without touch, one's health can suffer. In my case I aquire touch through my cats, the physical contact with another living creature is all that is needed. One thing that many people do not realize when deciding to be celibate is that most other people will treat you like a joke at best or a leper at worst when they find out that you are being celibate. It is often best to not let others know about your celibacy. Hopefully this answers some of your question.

Only you can decide if such a choice is best for you. Humans, as a species and as individuals build towers of things. Ever reaching upwards from the mud towards godhood. We make stepping stones from possesions, be they titles, responsibilities, money, items, ect. Each piece builds our tower a little higher so we always strive for more. Recently I witnessed everything I had worked hard for over the past several years fall to pieces within a few months. My tower had crumbled and I sat in the mud again. This led me to realize that the mud isn't so bad. Much like Zuangzi's tortoise I have found I prefer the mud to godhood. Whether the mud suits you like it does me is your choice. Just keep in mind that simply because society declares something to be bad, does not make it so.

To desire to be payed what we think we are worth is only human and no one can fault you for that. However it may reach the point where your desperation is great enough that you have to take a job below your skills, at least in the short term. In the mean time you can manage for a while through social programs. It's not the most pleasant thing to go through, but at least you can get plenty of food and even temporary housing if need be. One of the traps many people fall into is the assumption that what we go through must be permanent. All things come and go. When we are at the peak, we will fall and have to climb back up again. You have fallen, the question before you now is what way do you prefer to climb back up? It's always hard to realize that we must start over again, but it will happen time and time again. Sometimes it is necessary to just accept what is and pick up from wherever you are and start the climb again. In the job you had, did you make any contacts? Co-workers and the like who may be able to help you find a job close to what you were doing? Often times employers won't list the jobs that require plenty of experience like you have. In cases like this you could try calling a few places similar in nature to your old work and ask if they are currently hiring. It would surprise most people how often you can get a job doing that. Keep in mind that the easy path often looks difficult. Do not discount a possibility simply because of the troubles it seems to have. I truly do wish you the best of luck.

VeeCee, Let me ask you this. When searching for work, do you you hold any preconceived notions such as seeking a certain pay or only a given form of employment? As long as you are looking only for certain things, you will always miss the opportunities that you are not looking for. I do not know what Esther Hicks wrote about, but I do know that a key to causing the universe to conform with will is to not care about the outcome. The more you desire an outcome the less likely it is to manifest. That said, perhaps you are putting too much thought into seeking employment. Recently I was in a situation of needing a job, but unlike you I am under qualified for most things due to lack of education and no job skills. A friend of mine works for the Archdiocese of Seattle and she was kind enough to arrange for an interview with her boss for me. I went there knowing I was not qualified for the job and the interview went badly with my being told that I likely wouldn't get the job. I accepted this and went home. The next week I received a call saying that they were going to hire me after all and this in turn led to my gaining a second job which I was also under qualified for. The reason I was hired at both jobs was because of how I treated the interview. 1. Instead of doing the interview to gain employment, I did it for the sake of being interviewed with no future goals attached to it. 2. I was completely honest with no attempts to boost my lack of skills or attempts to win the job like some sort of prize. 3.I applied for the most unwanted task and the worst hours for said task. 4.After the interviews I put no more thought into them and let things fall as they would. This method may or may not work for you, but it is something to consider. I have found that if I am stagnated and desire to get things moving again that one of the best things to do is just stop for awhile and wait. When you stop looking, you often see what is around you. I hope this is of some help to you. May you have good tidings in your search.

Greetings All, It seems that my path has led me here for now. If I may I would like to stay for awhile until I go elsewhere. I thank you all for permitting me the privilege of sharing in your knowledge and I hope what little I can offer here will be of some use to others.