11:33

Thanks for noting this guys. I was thinking of seeking him out in Massachusetts, since I'm in RI, thinking he was a classically trained Taoist... Now I am thinking otherwise

Hey Pranaman, I feel what you're saying. That is one experience, but if he is experiencing legitimate physical feelings of unattraction to women and genuine sexual attraction to men, that's something different altogether!

Oh one more thing, which is not something I am 100% sure on, but I have heard from my qigong Sifu that in traditional Taoist understanding homosexuality was considered an imbalance (health-wise), and not natural. Now, I know that isn't something our liberal-minded modern attitudes are supposed to agree with, but if you're going to accept some parts of Taoism, one might AT LEAST consider the other parts. All the Best

Hmmm... Just a suggestion, If you want to try something taichi-like, you can always learn some form of qigong that doesn't put stress on the knees.

Just speculation, but it is possible these practices are messing up your internal balance and creating these urges that formerly weren't there. Who taught you the methods? When in doubt ask your teacher All the Best

I don't have any proof. My unsubstantiated answer is that qigong can do that, but you are best to learn from a skilled master, otherwise you'd be better off exercising, and eating a diet specially geared for heart disease. All the Best

My two cents for food for thought --> At least regarding qigong, which is my main source of experience so far, learning from a teacher, preferably a skilled master is a BIG difference. Of course not all teachers or masters are alike in their ability to help you acquire the skills. A master can transmit energy to you or open different energy points which assist you in going deeper in the art faster, as well as giving you a foothold so to speak into what the art is all about, so you really grok it. Learning from a book, they can tell you everything in words, but learning in person they can convey to you experiential states. When I first learned qigong from my primary Sifu he taught us some things I wouldn't have been able to get out of a book, because he taught them by energy transmission. He somehow projected onto the students certain skills, like tapping energy from the cosmos, or directing energy anywhere in the body to nourish organs or open the meridians, etc. The point is that to acquire these skills on my own I wouldn't even known the first place to start. I probably could have, on my own, over time of course... You can learn things on your own, then also look for the best teachers, then go to them and take it deeper. No matter what in any endeavor there is always a balance between the teacher teaching, and the student advancing and progressing on their own, so I don't think it is an either or of course! And to contrivedname!, I am pretty sure you CAN get transmissions by tuning into teachers, books, materials etc like you suggest. Most people may not know how, but I think it could be done, so hey, go for it! Just remember to make sure you really ARE getting the transmission, and not just fooling yourself into thinking you are. You could get confirmation perhaps from someone who is further along the path at some time, perhaps, to check if you are getting it [such as consulting an intermediate or advanced student along the path, just a thought...] All the Best

Some people have more or less ability to feel chi. In my school of qigong we're told not to worry about; some people feel it right away, some people don't feel it for years. Unfortunately, I don't know any kinds of exercises or tests you could do to make you feel it.

I'd love to here a overview of what you learned when you get back. I am thinking about going to one of these sometime in the near future.

This was a great thread full off great perspectives. Loved it.

It is also a religion that focuses on lineage And... people are asking about his lineage because they are far too polite to ask him if he is a liar. All the Best

Hi DaoChild, Just some of my musings to follow: To me, the pursuit of enlightenment is a natural outgrowth of my natural propensity to understand (life). I find it a natural thing. To me enlightenment is as much something that finds you, as it is something that you find, much like puberty or old age. It's natural, so like someone said above, like all things in nature there is a cycle. Just like we have cravings for food, to keep our bodies healthy, we get soul "cravings" for enlightenment. Like you said, you are feeling very content with your life now. That's a wonderful thing. Just be prepared for the next stage. Because there is always a next stage, right? All the Best

These sharings are all much appreciated. Thank you!

Scotty, Thank you!!!!!! I agree. It is my working opinion so far that energy practices can be a good foundation for intense spiritual work. It might not be evident from my last few posts, but the energy work I do enhances some spiritual qualities like compassion and clarity of mind. It also enhances courage and righteousness, so maybe I got a little bit excessively courageous and righteous above Shaolin Cosmos Qigong encourages letting-go and emptying the mind, which are at least a beginning to spiritual practice. Also, you learn not to be attached to outcomes, or to phenomena that may arise while practicing. That is also useful. But at the end of the day these "spiritual qualities" are quite firmly entrenched in the phenomenal. You hear of enlightened Buddhist masters who don't do qigong. (Am I right on that?) Yet, in Taoist cultivation there is tons of qigong... Hmmm... Thanks for your post Scotty. _/\_ 11:33

... bailey, I also have a dislike for deception. One of my highest guiding forces is to always tell the truth. I must have inadvertently typed over part of Mike's post. My bad ... Here's something I wrote in the first post of this thread. I'd like to take it back to the purpose of the thread.

mgd, Muchas gracias

Mike, I don't know what happened with the quote, I just hit the quote button. Believe me or don't. Now that I think about it, I probably accidentally overwrote it with my own words. Which I would stand behind saying to you, because it seems to me you'd rather talk about things have nothing to do with what I am asking about. The issue is that I asked "What do energetic practices have to do with enlightenment?" and you chose to tell me to earn it. That is like me saying, "what's for dinner?" and you saying, "dinner's at 5pm be there sharp". Then Cat, well what is she talking about? It doesn't make any sense. What's up with [what seems like] elitism over here? She said something along the lines of "people who have genuine energetic practices don't talk about enlightenment" That comment's ridiculous, and its rude. I suppose she's the one with the genuine energetic practice? I never claimed to be enlightened, nor to want to have it handed to me wrapped in a soft blanket. Peace.

Regarding the hurt and damaged ego, I'm pretty sure any old wife-beater qould say that. Fact is they're still abusive. Well you're not worth exchanging with. I'll remember to ignore your arrogant and condescending stupidity from now on. Who's the student here? If someone thinks they're my teacher who doesn't know me, well, that's their mistake to handle. This is a discussion forum not a school. Enjoy your giant egos you two. Peace.

Mike, The whole issue is that you wrote a two word response that doesn't answer or have to do with the question asked. That conveyed nothing to me. This post at least conveyed what you were trying to say, now I can actually reply and converse with you. Your whole post assumes I know nothing. You talk in a manner assuming I have no exposure or no experience. Which isn't the case. But it tells a lot about who you are. You shouldn't explain things to people before you know where they are coming from. It's a big waste of time. You can work as hard as you want toward enlightenment, but if the method is shoddy, your life will have been a waste. (not suggesting this is the case with you) Your post was quite impolite, so I forgive your impoliteness. Now let me ask you, how can you help someone you don't even know or understand? Do you really think quippy posts like "Earn it." mean anything out of context? They don't in my opinion. You're not some guru who can say anything and I'll bow to your wisdom. Wow, you sweated for an hour, great, you sure are earning it. You are so full of assumptions about me, is this how you talk to everyone? It shows a lack of communication ability, when you talk to someone without asking simple questions to get to understand their motivation, history, or perspective. These kinds of quotes show how incapable of reading properly you are: That is the definition for enlightenment, which someone asked me for, and which is the highest point of understanding or wisdom a human can have, and yet the desire for this wisdom is "childish" to you. I think you're a bit too full of yourself. Maybe check that in the mirror once or twice. Work smart, then you can work hard. ... I'm not interested in an argument. I only think your approach to discussion is and was condescending. How about we just talk like equals? Which means if you have a question about my motives or perspective, you ask me first, then talk to me about what I really think, rather than talk to the imaginary person you put in my place. All the Best, 11:33 ... On a related note, I highly recommend I think it is the fourth habit fromThe Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, called "Seek first to understand, before being understood"... It basically explains that you cannot really explain something to someone effectively without first getting to know in some level of depth the person you are explaining to. Truce. I'm going to go practice now. No, I'm not over here pissed off. Have a lovely day. Seriously.

If you aren't going to read the thread in full then don't post. I never asked any such thing. And you didn't quote me saying that. You quoted me describing what enlightenment is in my terms.

So do you want to talk about enlightenment with us or what? ... I was just at the book store and ended up reading 'random' parts of Chronicles of Tao. I didn't think i'd like it because I heard that it stretched the truth, but I did enjoy the parts I flipped to a lot. There were discussions between the main character and the two immortal Taoists that he was being taught by, all about the Taoist views on immortality and freedom from the cycle of rebirth! Wonderful, exactly what I was wanting to know more about. Before this, I wasn't sure if Taoists were cultivating to leave the cycle of rebirth or not...

I just disproved this thesis. I'm steeped in energetic practices, and yet here I am asking some simple, genuine questions about enlightenment.

Thanks WhiteTiger, This is my understanding of enlightenment: Human beings are in a constant state of creating karma through our deluded minds. As one unfolds his mind into its pure nature these karmic attachments release; on the surface this looks like the person has become very wise and pure. As an effect they have no karmic attachments and are not reborn. If one does not eliminate their attachment to phenomena that comes from desire, then even if you do many good deeds and are reborn in Heaven where you will live millions of human years in happiness, eventually you will die and be reborn. This cycle goes on for eternity. Eventually you will always cycle back down from Heaven to Hell, as change is the only constant. So enlightenment is escaping this cycle of rebirth by releasing attachment to that which is phenomenal.

Well they also talk about swordfish a lot too. I think it is the bigger fish that collect the most mercury in the tissues over time??

This doesn't make any sense. I asked what energetic practices have to do with enlightenment. Hi WhiteTiger, How do you see enlightenment then? All the Best, 11:33