Thunder_Gooch

no kidding

Vortex, If you do attend take very good notes I'll pay 1/2 your tuition.

I believe there is a discount for groups, so it might be a good idea for everyone interested in attending to group together.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kegel_exercise As a guy; saying you don't have the urge for sex, usually means you are bored with sex and masturbation is more pleasurable. I've known a few women who really had incredible muscle strength and could make a grip that would break your hand, I'd never get bored of sex with them.

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I am sure if the singularity ever happened you could choose to be a neo-luddite. Like how today just because everyone else uses electricity, running water, computers, telephones, television, cars, etc, doesn't mean you are forced to do so.

NP, Here is another cool video cL9Wu2kWwSY

I'd move if there was already a stable community, self sufficiency would be key, I would want to be surrounded by serious individuals, not by bongo drum firewalking hippies. I guess it would depend on the community.

http://www.howstuffworks.com/lightning.htm http://science.howstuffworks.com/electromagnet.htm

Must Watch: Did You Know? cL9Wu2kWwSY Ray Kurzweil futurist, transhumanist, and author of the singularity is near IfbOyw3CT6A Blue Brain is a project, begun in May 2005, to create a computer simulation of the brain of mammals including the human brain, down to the molecular level. 1y0NOa-yjr8 IBM is doing this now, its called the blue brain project. http://bluebrain.epfl.ch/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Brain http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/02/cognitive-compu/ http://news.cnet.com/8301-13772_3-10103355-52.html A company from Canada D-Wave, and NASA demoed the worlds first quantum computer a few years ago, if the technology scales it could lead to single chips which have greater computational capacity for certain problems then all of our current super computers combined. I can only imagine what advanced quantum computers coupled with IBM's blue brain software could accomplish. http://arstechnica.com/hardware/news/2007/02/quantum.ars http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-Wave_Systems http://dwave.wordpress.com/ http://nextbigfuture.com/2009/04/dwa...c-quantum.html

Whether liberation is achieved by spiritual or technological means is irrelevant to me, I see my spiritual training as a technology itself anyway. I think eventually if we ever make it to what transhumanists call the singularity we might well understand the true nature of reality.

This paper surveys evidence and arguments for the proposition that the universe as we know it is not a physical, material world but a computer-generated simulation -- a kind of virtual reality. The evidence is drawn from the observations of natural phenomena in the realm of quantum mechanics. The arguments are drawn from philosophy and from the results of experiment. While the experiments discussed are not conclusive in this regard, they are found to be consistent with a computer model of the universe. Six categories of quantum puzzles are examined: quantum waves, the measurement effect (including the uncertainty principle), the equivalence of quantum units, discontinuity, non-locality, and the overall relationship of natural phenomena to the mathematical formalism. Many of the phenomena observed in the laboratory are puzzling because they are difficult to conceptualize as physical phenomena, yet they can be modeled exactly by mathematical manipulations. When we analogize to the operations of a digital computer, these same phenomena can be understood as logical and, in some cases, necessary features of computer programming designed to produce a virtual reality simulation for the benefit of the user. http://www.bottomlayer.com/bottom/argument/Argument4.html http://www.amazon.com/Programming-Universe...t/dp/1400040922 Lloyd, a professor at MIT, works in the vanguard of research in quantum computing: using the quantum mechanical properties of atoms as a computer. He contends that the universe itself is one big quantum computer producing what we see around us, and ourselves, as it runs a cosmic program. According to Lloyd, once we understand the laws of physics completely, we will be able to use small-scale quantum computing to understand the universe completely as well. In his scenario, the universe is processing information. The second law of thermodynamics (disorder increases) is all about information, and Lloyd spends much of the book explaining how quantum processes convey information. The creation of the universe itself involved information processing: random fluctuations in the quantum foam, like a random number generator in a computer program, produced higher-density areas, then matter, stars, galaxies and life.

Thought this video would be appropriate for this discussion. 9G8WEVTcFM0 Lyrics to Right Where It Belongs : See the animal in it's cage that you built Are you sure what side you're on? Better not look him too closely in the eye Are you sure what side of the glass you are on? See the safety of the life you have built Everything where it belongs Feel the hollowness inside of your heart And it's all Right where it belongs [Chorus:] What if everything around you Isn't quite as it seems? What if all the world you think you know Is an elaborate dream? And if you look at your reflection Is it all you wanted to be? What if you could look right through the cracks? Would you find yourself Find yourself afraid to see? What if all the world's inside of your head Just creations of your own? Your devils and your gods All the living and the dead And you really are alone You can live in this illusion You can choose to believe You keep looking but you can't find the woods While you're hiding in the trees [Chorus:] What if everything around you Isn't quite as it seems? What if all the world you used to know Is an elaborate dream? And if you look at your reflection Is it all you wanted to be? What if you could look right through the cracks Would you find yourself Find yourself afraid to see?

I am not really sure what enlightenment is or isn't. I have taken Jed's method as far as I can, I don't know if anything including my own existence and experience is real or true. I do know however I don't want to be reborn into another world like this one, so I want to stop the rebirth process if such a process exists. That's what I am most concerned with, if I ever solve that problem then I will worry about ultimate truth and enlightenment.

"How long has your guru been teaching?" "Well, uh, over thirty years." "And how many of his students have achieved enlightenment?" "Well, uh..." "That you know of personally?" "Well, uh, I never..." "That you've heard of?" "It's not" "That there were rumors of?" "I don't think..." "What is it they're doing, Martin? The recipe for enlightenment they're promoting - what is it?" "Uh, well, meditation and knowledge, basically." "And in thirty years they've never held someone up and said, 'Look at this guy! He's enlightened and we got him there!' In thirty years, they don't have one? Don't you think they should have, like, an entire army of enlightened guys to show off by now?" "Well, it's not..." "After thirty years they should have a few dozen generations of enlightened people. Even with only a quarter of them becoming teachers, they should have flooded the world by now, mathematically speaking, don't you think? I'm not asking all this as a teacher myself, mind you. I'm just asking as a consumer, or a consumer's advocate. Don't you think it's reasonable to ask to know a teacher's success rate? The proof is in the pudding, right? Didn't you ask them about the fruit of their teachings when you started with them?" "Well, that's not..." "Don't you think it's reasonable to ask? They're in the enlightenment business, aren't they? Or did I misunderstand you? Do they have something else going?" "Nooo, but they..." "If Consumer Reports magazine did a report on which spiritual organizations delivered as promised, don't you suppose that the first statistic listed under each organization would be success rating? Like, here are a hundred randomly selected people who started with the organization five years ago and here's where they are today. For instance, thirty-one have moved up in the organization, twenty-seven have moved on, thirty-nine are still with it but not deeply committed and three have entered abiding non-dual awareness. Okay, three percent - that's a number you can compare. But this organization of yours would have big fat goose egg, wouldn't they? And not just out of a hundred, but out of hundreds of thousands - millions, probably. Am I wrong? - Jed McKenna - 'Spiritual Enlightenment:The Damnedest Thing'

I'd say Jed's point still rings true even if teachers are not enlightenment factories. If you want to become an accomplished architect after college you would become an apprentice to an accomplished architect, study from him and learn all his subtleties and nuances. You might even apprentice under others if your so inclined. Learn from the best in the field. Or at least that's what I would do, seems logical. The problem in today's information age is there is too much DISinformation. Sure there are 10,000,000,000 different schools of neigong/qigong/energy arts/ meditation styles and schools, from Taoist to Buddhist to Hindu to Egyptian to Wiccan to Newage to ijustmadethisshituptosellbookstowiccanemogothfags Too much of this information is just garbage, there is far too much for an individual to test and try every methodology himself. So I would say Jed's logic stands. If you have a goal and want to accomplish it first seek a master, school or system that has already accomplished that goal, and or produced students that have also.

If you take McKenna's road to its end there wont be any "you" left, that person will have died. The whole point of his practice is to deconstruct every part of yourself until nothing remains. No likes, no dislikes, no opinions or preferences, no memories, no ego, no anything. Just a dead and empty husk. I'd say if such thoughts bother you not to pursue his path its a bloody one.

Straw dogs were used as ceremonial objects in ancient China. Chapter 5 of the Tao Te Ching begins with the lines "Heaven and Earth are heartless / treating creatures like straw dogs". Su Ch'e comments "Heaven and Earth were not partial. They do not kill living things out of cruelty or give them birth out of kindness. We do the same when we make straw dogs to use in sacrifices. We dress them up and put them on the altar, but not because we love them. And when the ceremony is over, we throw them into the street, but not because we hate them." D.C. Lau's frequently cited and often disputed 1963 translation, Lau explains that the term refers to the ancient practice of constructing animal figures out of straw for use as religious offerings. Such figures would be treated with utmost reverence prior to the sacrificial fires--but afterward, their ashes were swept up and discarded with the common refuse.

We do the best we can with what we have. I don't claim to know for certain what happens after death, but I see a lot of possibilities. 1. There is an eternal heaven/hell and reincarnation does not occur. 2. There is a temporary heaven/hell and reincarnation does occur. 3. There is no heaven or hell, and reincarnation does not occur. 4. There is no heaven or hell, and reincarnation does occur. 5. Reincarnation somehow occurs but liberation from the cycle of reincarnation is possible. 6. Other, or unfathomable by our primitive ape brains. I find the prospect of continual reincarnation to be the only unacceptable outcome of all these scenarios so I am dedicating my life to try to overcome it. Also my spiritual pursuits give me meaning, purpose and direction.

Vajrasattva, I was wondering if you had any info on any of the other yogas of naropa besides tummo. Also how much would you charge for just a class on tummo itself, not the KAP etc.

Jed McKenna defines enlightenment as abiding non-dual awareness, truth realization or rather un-truth un-realization. Non-dual awareness means that all is one, observer and observed become the same entity, abiding means that it is not a temporary state it endures. Jed has a process for achieving this state he calls spiritual autolysis or spiritual self digestion. It is aptly named, as one views the maps of ego, self, and environment that we create and disassembles each individual piece of it examining it asking the question can I be absolutely certain if this is true or not, if the answer is no it is discarded. This process is continued until only what is absolutely true remains and nothing else. According to Jed, this has lead many of his students into severe existential crises, as they dissemble their own egos, world views, maps of reality, belief systems. Everything that made them "them" is completely obliterated leaving a blank and perpetually empty slate. Jed likens this state to being a vampire amongst the living. Enlightenment, for a wave in the ocean, is the moment the wave realizes it is water. -Thich Nhat Hanh Buddha had some interesting things to say about the subject. Which leads me to believe that enlightenment may refer to the abiding non-dual awareness as McKenna describes. He who experiences the unity of life sees his own Self in all beings, and all beings in his own Self, and looks on everything with an impartial eye. -Buddha "My uncreated and unending profound Enlightenment accords with the Tathagatagarbha, which is absolute bodhi, and ensures my perfect insight into the Dharma realm [realm of Ultimate Truth], where the one is infinite and the infinite is one." -Buddha I don't claim to be enlightened or have ever experienced true enlightenment, but I have had a few experiences of non-duality, mostly while in a trance type state like right before you wake up. One time when I was meditating, I was so deeply focused I had forgotten my own existence. One of my room mates had come in my room to bother me, and didn't realize I was meditating. As he talked I didn't associate with my own body, instead it was as if both he and I were both the same entity. Both puppets being animated by the same hand. It was as if the driving force behind his consciousness was the exact same force which was behind mine. I viewed the scene just as a dream or a video on a television, except I had no body or sense of self. Instead of me there was only the experience, the happening of me, of that moment. There was no body or physical substance, just an occurrence. I don't really know how to put what I experienced into words but that's about the best I can do. I guess enlightenment in that sense would really be an intellectual or unintellectual state. I think a lot of the taoist traditions seek a more physical form of enlightenment or perhaps liberation from rebirth. I myself am seeking more of a physical liberation from rebirth than I am permanent non-dual awareness.

I am am curious.

My apologies if I offended you, but I don't like your friend. I am interested in learning about what your first two sources had to say about gtummo. How much would such a lesson cost?

Don't worry I'm not. I am focused systems and teachers that get observable results. lol ok....