Thunder_Gooch

If you want an honest answer I'll give you one. Call me an emo if you like. Life is hell, and those that enjoy it most are the ones most in denial about it. Everything you love will die, everything you do is meaningless. To quote Kansas: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHyhZi72fUc Most religions, and spiritual practices are about making you ok with what is going to happen to you, very few are about trying to change the very nature of the situation you are in. I want to do something about the situation I am, I don't want to be narcotized, or stiff upper lip about it. There are various cases for what can happen to you after death: 1. Permanent cessation of consciousness. Going to sleep and never waking up. 2. Eternal afterlife of some sort. 3. Reincarnation. Forgetting previous life and beginning as some new organism somewhere. The only one of these options I find unacceptable is starting again, over and over and over and over. I'm done. I want this to be my last rodeo. ______________________________________________________ Well that explains it then. I must have been literally Hitler or Genghis Khan in my past life, because people in general feel absolutely alien to me, almost nothing in this society/world resonates with my soul. I see so much ****ing potential, we could literally be as Gods if we wanted it, not in 1000 years but right NOW. Unlimited resources, unlimited intelligence, unlimited energy, unlimited whatever we wanted, no death, no pain, no suffering, no ignorance. And instead of anyone actually caring about the fact we could actually be Gods RIGHT NOW, we are more concerned with Miley Cyrus little badonka-donk *** at the VMAs and watching Honey BOO BOO and Duck Dynasty. Seriously, I don't get humans at all. ______________________________________________________ What happens to those that believe they don't know?

In our language and culture there is probably not a better word to describe it. In my opinion the word supernatural should not even exist, as it denotes something beyond nature, or beyond the natural laws of the universe. Obviously if something exists or occurs it cannot be supernatural, it can't be above nature, it can't be beyond the laws of the natural universe. I would view such abilities labeled as supernatural, as a natural ability or technology gained through understanding some area of reality that modern science has not yet probed into. The human mind is a funny thing. We like to break apart the world into things, like supernatural, spiritual, mystical, scientific, etc. There isn't a supernatural world, and a spiritual world, and a mystical world, and a scientific world. There is just one world (universe/multiverse) and it's purely natural, even if we don't understand it all via science yet. I think we limit ourselves and believe our current technology and scientific paradigms and understanding as advanced. Sure we are advanced compared to 100 years ago, but are we really in the grand scheme of things? No, we are still just monkeys, and our understanding of reality is still just that of monkeys. We give ourselves way too much credit, sure we can split an atom, and have high speed fiber optic networks, and flying airplanes, but it is possible to develop god like technology, and if we don't blow ourselves up first, or enslave the masses in some dystopian future, that is where we are headed. Assuming we continue on our current pace of development in a few thousand years humanity wouldn't even be recognizable to us.

Well the point I was trying to make was that if you truly understood the mechanisms of sorcery if it does exist, you probably would stop calling it sorcery. In 1000 BCE a few men with AK-47s and a lot of ammo could slaughter an army of hundreds of thousands, and they would be looked at as demons, gods, or sorcerers etc. It's all in your perception whether something is supernatural or not.

You are correct, we do not truly understand gravity or magnetism, yet such forces aren't viewed as supernatural. I would venture to guess if we saw ghosts or spirits on a regular basis that they would no longer be considered supernatural either even if lacked an explanation for them.

It might exist, however if we understood it completely our thoughts and opinions on what it was and how it worked would be much different. For instance if I went back in time to the 1500's and demonstrated the ability to talk to someone miles away through walls even via radio waves they would be certain it was sorcery and I'd be burned at the stake for it. However radio-waves are something we understand and are familiar with and no longer seem magical or mysterious to us.

BWHAHAAH yup.

To what end? What does such mastery lead to? Why does it matter?

Automatic moving in tai chi style movements isn't going make you a hsien, if you think it conveys some other benefit then awesome. For me it might as well be rolling around and flopping randomly. Just more pretty dancing.

k

Only the things that really matter. In your opinion.

Sure it does. It is common sense to think that the void of empty space is empty. What I am saying is the exact opposite is true. It is not empty space at all. Rather it is 100% full space. Filled to the absolute maximum, can't hold another drop, to the brim, full. This is a complete reversal of all of our common sense. How does form come out of this nothing or emptiness? I gave two examples. 1st Insanely powerful gravitational fields like at the edge of a black hole's event horizon, can split empty space (sea of electron/positron pairs) apart and pull the antimatter particle (positron) into the black hole, and emit the particle (electron) back into the universe. This is known as hawking radiation. 2nd We know that over time random quantum vacuum fluctuations do also separate these electron positron pairs, given infinite time a universe like ours will be generated via such a random quantum vacuum fluctuation. Why? Well your guess is as good as mine. Perhaps God, Shiva, Vishnu, The operators of the computer simulation, want it so. I don't have an ultimate explanation for the cause of random quantum vacuum fluctuations other than that's what we observe.

I can. This paradox arises because you think of nothing as nothing. Nothing is not nothing. Nothing is something. Empty space is as full as anything can possibly be. It is absolutely 100% totally full. It is an ocean of electron/positron pairs which have been fused together. Matter and antimatter combined as one. Given infinite time random quantum fluctuations do occur which would cause these pairs to separate and generate a universe from "nothing". At the edge of a black hole, the singularity's gravitational field is so strong that it rips apart empty space, breaking apart the bonds of the electron/positron pair, and absorbs the positron and emits the electron. The positron being antimatter will combine again with the matter contained within and convert it back into an electron positron pair (empty space) thereby decreasing it's mass. This is known an hawking radiation. Over eons black holes evaporate into nothing. Reseeding the universe with matter. If this is confusing, think of this. When you dig a hole, you create a pile of dirt as well. Now you have a pile of dirt and hole. Yet if you return the dirt to the hole you wind up with the ground you started with. Empty space is like the ground in this analogy, the pile of dirt like matter, and the hole like antimatter. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_particle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawking_radiation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirac_sea

I said pretty much everything I wanted to here: http://thetaobums.com/topic/31819-how-not-knowing-ones-path-could-be-a-much-greater-form-of-wisdom-and-power/#entry480538 The rest is just in defense of that. I don't think anyone is entitled to their opinion, only what they can defend. If you can't defend your opinion you don't have one. The topic is not knowing your path can lead you to wisdom and power, and I disagree with that as I've seen no evidence of that ever occurring. It takes huge groups of dedicated serious people to carve out paths through the mountains of ignorance. I have absolutely no issue with a thread split if the OP wants one. I wasn't trying to derail his thread, only that I disagree with the threads premise.

I think there are at most 10 other non-BS schools available. I also believe if we had millions of serious seekers, and devoted people we could recreate or surpass the knowledge contained by those lineages. The problem is we don't. Modern life doesn't allow for it, two days a week is the most anyone is going to be able to devote to practice. The spiritual marketplace offers for the most part entertainment, feng shui for your life, spiritual fashion to be worn, it's decorative and entertaining but not much else. Some systems may provide inner peace but really it's just a form of psychological/emotional anesthetic, and it does nothing to change the situation you are in, only making you ok with it.

My advice is spend some time figuring out what it is you want from your practice, otherwise you'll just be a spiritual impulse shopper for the rest of your life. Let me quote you something I think you might like from Alice's Adventures in Wonderland

The most common misconception is that science is a conclusion or set of conclusions. It is not. What science is is a process by which we build ever more accurate paradigms based on information available to us. Some "spiritual" systems are very much a science yet they have gone in a different direction from western science and technology, but they are a science none the less. The results they get are obvious. That is the job of ethics, philosophy, morality, etc. Science is a tool and process by which we build more accurate paradigms. Science has made great inroads to helping us cure many diseases that were not curable 100 years ago, but only because that is how we've chosen to apply science to research methods to cure disease, it's also made great advances in allowing us to feed more people, there are nearly 7 billion people on this earth and it's amazing we can feed as many as we do. It would not be possible for this many humans to be alive and fed without science and technology. Science also has made us exponentially better at murdering people in the name of warfare. It's good at finding solutions for whatever problems we focus on, if that is killing someone or feeding someone it isn't a fault of science itself, but of the culture wielding it as a tool. You can bet your happy *** that indeed it is our savior. It is the only way we have ever built more accurate paradigms. There isn't some spiritual world over there, and some scientific world over here. There is just one world and we really don't understand it all too well. Science be it a spiritual science like some lineages, or western science is the best process we have by which we can make our paradigms of reality more accurate. It is still science. I can never forget even for an instant that every cell of my body will become food for worms and bacteria, my very brain itself will be devoured. My consciousness will become that of an unconscious coma patient with basic memory only, and await erasure, and rebirth into another ****hole like this one, ad infinitum. That's where I am at. That is going to happen, and there is no sugar coating it, or watching day time television to make it go away. Every moment I am alive is to realize where this is all headed. Congrats to you if you find some coping mechanism to make yourself ok with this process, rather than try to actually do something about it. I feel confident no level utilizes spontaneous movement or methods which are not rigid and clearly defined. That's just a hunch. ___________________________ ___________________________ I don't see that at all. I see a lot more people becoming delusional peaced out silly hippies. I see the average IQ of humanity being dumbed down into oblivion, and tyrannical governments coming to power in every country with the populations too ignorant to see what's going on. I see an ocean of ignorant sheep, and an increase of silly hippies. That's all. No real serious students or seekers, just a bunch of ADHD ***hats that can't pull themselves away from the television long enough to investigate something real or meaningful. What you don't seem to realize is the rise of disinformation. Each year since 1994 more and more bull**** has been clogging up the internet. The vast majority of people on the internet in the early 90's were intelligent adults, now it's a cesspool of 4chan trolls, this forum is no different. Cacophony I believe is an accurate word to describe this. A sea of a billion screaming voices 999 million of which have no clue about what they are talking about. Disinformation, there is more information available than ever before, however it's mostly garbage. Everyone and their brother has written some newage book on some nonsense topic that doesn't actually mean anything or teach you how to actually do anything. How to get rich guides by dip****s that still live in their parents basement. To quote the Dalai Lama: More effective at doing what exactly? I haven't seen any of these modern masters surpass any of the masters of the old lineages, nor have I even heard of such nonsense. Sure if we understood exactly what yin and yang chi really were there is no doubt in my mind we could build machines to extract and fuse them together to speed the process of cultivation up many billion fold, but we don't.

If anything I think the number of high level masters is dwindling. Finding serious students who can feed themselves and dedicate the time to practice is next to impossible, and no institutions exist to help further their development while they train. I think stopping the cycle of rebirth is the only thing worth doing, as every realization or unrealization you might have will be rendered null and void by the black hole that is death. ___________________________ ___________________________ I know that Wang Liping of Longmen Pai is rumored to be at a high level of development and that the introductory training given for his school is very similar in many respects to mo pai level 1-2a, in addition to many other methods. Assuming they do exist you are correct, I do not know their method of practice. They very well might roll around on the floor randomly flopping around and speaking in tongues and this might lead to greater levels of achievement than is possible with mo pai. That may be possible but seems highly improbable. That's just my personal opinion with nothing else to back it up at all. I've encountered one in person rumored to be at a high level of development, but I am not at the level to accurately gauge his level of development.

I don't see it as such, science has been the only way we have ever cut through delusion to arrive at more accurate and functional paradigms. Real spiritual practices that have lead to real results utilized scientific method and had thousands of researchers working on the problem, just like any other scientific endeavor. Indeed I wouldn't even call real spiritual systems spiritual at all but instead I would call them science and technology. Everything else serves only artistic and entertainment purposes as a distraction from death. ___________________________ ___________________________ So would I.

I think you make my point for me in this statement. I have never heard of one Zen master who has achieved anything I consider notable. The same goes for "masters" of virtually every other spiritual method and practice on the market. To me it's all just garbage that wouldn't even be useful if recycled as toilet paper. Learning new philosophies and ways of looking at the world is fun, but the fun is just entertainment value, a distraction. If the knowledge you gain doesn't help you stop the cycle of rebirth, it's worthless in my opinion. That is where this is all ultimately headed, you will die, and anything that doesn't prevent the cycle from restarting is merely a distraction. Very few spiritual practices lead anywhere, and or do anything other than make your wallet lighter. In the very best case scenario it keeps the practitioner entertained, a distraction to pass the time before their death, or serves some artistic function where it decorates their life like some sort of feng shui, or spiritual fashion.

Geniuses like Einstein, Tesla, Maxwell created synthetic realities inside their own minds and gained near superhuman insight as a result. I am sure some spiritual adepts are able to do the same, and perhaps with enough minds working together to test and research such ideas it could lead to new systems more powerful and functional than the ancient lineages. However men like Einstein are as rare to science as they are to spirituality. Speaking in tongues, and shaking like you are having seizures or spontaneous movements isn't likely to convey any benefit to you as a spiritual seeker though other than the roleplaying and entertainment factor, that is what I am getting at.

I would have to disagree. There are 10 "high level masters" alive, I doubt any of them utilize spontaneous movements. Please see:

I concede that men of genius like Einstein, Tesla, Maxwell, etc. All had the ability to visualize to a near superhuman degree and dream up the correct answers and solutions to their problems, but always these ideas were firmly tested in reality. Logical, rational, scientific, well mapped out systems, are truly the only ones that have ever led us anywhere. For instance we wouldn't have the space program, nuclear technology, computer technology, etc had great minds not worked, studied, researched and applied the scientific method to help us discover and understand the principals which make those technologies possible. Real spiritual systems that actually do something, took thousands of people trying different things and most of them dying as a result of the experimentation to discover what worked and what did not. The only counter argument I can see that might be valid is that you may argue that spiritual systems may exist for entertainment purposes, or artistic/decorative purposes, without serving any practical function. Indeed for most spiritual seekers this seems to be the case, a game of roleplaying where the goal is to roleplay you are not roleplaying. Real spiritual systems that get real results are mapped out in a clearly defined and linear way, that makes sense. It's called science.

Well the addon in this case would be greasemonkey script run locally on the end users machine. An addon for the forum itself may indeed cost money.

As far as spontaneous movement is concerned not knowing what path you are on might work just fine. For virtually any other endeavor in life (real spirituality included) this is not the case.