Thunder_Gooch

Masters of what vs masters of what? How many masters of Mo Pai stayed in the state between waking and sleeping to do their meditation? I guess ALL of them. How many masters of Buddhist meditation stayed in shamatha? I am not sure, probably most of them? I think perhaps the reason we are having this debate in the first place is you believe all roads lead to Rome, they don't. I am not heading in the direction you are heading. I believe you are in the wrong forum/topic. This might help: http://thetaobums.com/forum/183-buddhist-discussion/

Trance is just the state you have to be in to begin, one pointed concentration while in that state takes it to another level. This is the only method I am aware of to effectively let you extract and store chi.

Look at the topic of the thread, it doesn't read John Chang teaches Buddhist Samadhi meditation does it?

See page 8 of this thread.

I could not care less what it is or is not the opposite of. Look at the topic of the thread, it doesn't read John Chang teaches Buddhist Samadhi meditation does it? Trance is not useless for what I study, it is absolutely 100% mission critical. If you don't like this, stick to your practice and move on with your life. I found something that works for me, you found something that works for you. Awesome!

I drink a cup of chamomile tea, take 500mg of magnesium citrate, 20mg of melatonin, and 400mg of L-theanine. I check to make sure the grounding wire is in place, on my chair. I put my mp3 player on repeat with my meditation mp3 of a babbling brook and Tibetan singing bowls, it is not music, it helps drown out thoughts and helps me relax. I put on my mindfold. I sit in my chair and try to "relax", slowing my breath down slower and slower, until it reaches the point where I require almost no oxygen. The point at which I can no longer hear my mp3, I realize I am in light trance, and I continue deeper until I can see clearly eyes blindfolded. I will begin one pointed concentration at this point. If I need a bathroom break which at some point I usually do, I will move to half lotus for 30 minutes before switching back to the chair.

That is the correct word for it.

Depends on your goal for practice. Sounds to me like you have sour grapes because not everyone shares your goal whatever that is.

Oh my bad, materializing into a recognizable form out of raw chaos is a pretty dull thing indeed. Trance is the state that allows you to work with chi, one pointed concentration allows you to extract it. I am not aiming for realization, millions of Buddhists do that every day and achieve high levels of it and still die like dogs and are still reborn. In my opinion they wasted a perfectly good lifetime pursuing garbage.

A profoundly deep state of trance between waking and sleeping IS the only state it is even possible to work with chi in any meaningful way.

I am not attempting to achieve Tao realization. I am focused on extracting chi from the environment.

You've got your system and it works for you. That is awesome. I've got my system and it works for me. If you want to create a thread for discussion of your path, that would be a better solution in my opinion.

I will repeat this again. You must be in the state between waking and sleeping (trance) to begin the meditation I practice. If you practice something else and were taught to do something else, that is fine. We can agree to disagree, and you can move on with your life.

I am not sure who told you this, or where you got that idea, but I find the opposite is true. Only in trance is my mind pacified enough to focus, only via trance can I end my monkey mind. I think you've got the totally wrong idea about what trance is, what it is like and what it does.

Focus is critical, but only if done from a state of trance. One pointed concentration doesn't lead to the state between waking and sleeping, it doesn't lead to suspended metabolic animation.

Buddhist practice don't go where I am wanting to go, they go somewhere else.

I am not sure I agree with the second part of this statement. There is less awareness of the outside world, for instance I could be in trance and someone start knocking on the door, perhaps even screaming and I would not be able to hear it even if I was trying to listen for it. Time dilation occurs, thinking is slowed down, you think much less and much slower, but much more clearly.

Again I am not sure we are on the same page, sounds like you fell asleep and are blaming something you think is something else for something or other, not really sure.

I think you meant to say: "It is of no use to MY cultivation."

I am not sure we are on the same page. If you are describing trance as mental dullness I am certain we are not on the same page.

I am not sure you and I are on the same page here. Trance is the state you must be in, one pointed concentration is the thing you do in that state. Both equally as necessary, so is being physically/electrically grounded to the earth at the perineum point, so is metabolic suspended animation, so is full/half lotus, etc.

Being focused on an object either internal or external to a superhuman degree leads to Jhana, Jhana is not trance. Trance is the state you must first be in to begin the meditation I practice. One pointed concentration/focus done from the trance state (in between waking and sleeping) allows for the meditation to actually work. Both are necessary. One pointed concentration itself does not allow you to enter into trance, it does not allow you to enter into suspended metabolic animation.

What? Trance is not mental dullness, I am not sure who told you this or where on earth you got that idea. It is the state between waking and sleeping, your thought processes will never be more lucid than in this state. You will never think with more clarity or be more insightful than in this state. Remember that thing you couldn't remember what it was from 5 months ago, BOOM you have instant access to that knowledge. Remember childhood memories you'd forgotten? BOOM here they are in perfect HD video clarity. The waking state is the dull state my friend. You are free to go over the dictionary definition of trance again and try to argue why this isn't it. If you want to play that game fine, but if not I'd rather not continue splitting hairs.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/trance 2. A sleeplike state (as of deep hypnosis) usually characterized by partly suspended animation with diminished or absent sensory and motor activity

Trance is not at odds with the type of cultivation I practice. In fact, it is a prerequisite to the actual meditation. That is the truth. You may do something different and trance is bad for whatever that is, that's fine. If you still feel otherwise agree to disagree and move on with your life.