Thunder_Gooch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoOgZsQGQpA The same, except you forgot to mention there was a medical doctor and physicist present to study him, they checked his body for metal and he was still able to deliver the goods. Remember this "fraud" never charged anyone not even students or people he healed, and never profited directly from healing or teaching. He handed the school over to his other students to pursue his own training, so he's now retired. He wasn't seeking fame or wealth. But I am sure that won't be enough for you tough, not until he goes to claim James Randi's million dollar prize. There are several studies which document amazing abilities in individuals. Tummo or inner fire meditation is similar in the initial levels to the school of the man you call a fraud. They have studied Tummo (inner fire meditation) practitioners and found some amazing abilities as well: http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/2002/04.18/09-tummo.html Wim Hof the most famous non monk tummo master has recently been in the news for being able to control his immune system in a controlled environment, as well as seemingly impossible cold endurance tests.

Yes 99.999% who think they have empty force don't it's just delusion. Those video's are probably just that. Here is a real demo of John Chang's student Jim passing his level 2b exam. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKuXuDCPfds

Metta meditation would probably be the best practice to change the world, if everyone on earth practiced it daily and sincerely, we would live in heaven. Just my $0.02

People who claim to have obtained non dual awareness, which may or may not be enlightenment, it could be some form of schizophrenia even, claim that nothing is better or worse than anything. For them having sex with seventy two 18 year old virgins while stoned out of their gourd and winning the lottery would be no more appealing than being slowly ground into hamburger while alive. Neither pleasure nor pain have any meaning, nor does anything else in anything more than the context of a dream. According to them no person exists anymore to experience either pain nor pleasure. If this is mental illness or enlightenment I can't say for sure. It does seem these people no longer have any issues, as even a physical painful death is of no concern.

http://www.amazon.com/Universe-Nothing-There-Something-Rather/dp/145162445X/

I created my forum only because there has never been a subforum here specifically for qigong/neigong/neijia discussion. My hosting runs out in December 2012 and would love to just have a subforum for qigong/neigong here on the bums. I'll keep my forum open for as long as there isn't such a subforum, but would be willing to donate whatever was necessary to make it happen. Thanks.

I think your advice is extremely valuable mjjbecker. People should do what resonates with them. I think before you invest any time in any school you should ask yourself, what is my end goal? What am I trying to accomplish? You shouldn't waste your time with systems that don't match up with your goals for practice. "Advanced" is in the eye of the practitioner, based on their goals for practice. One man's garbage is another man's treasure and vice versa.

I am not so sure it is the spirit world, looks exactly the same as real life, only in HD and more vibrant color.

Sounds interesting Thank you.

Sure active exercises are also very much part of the equation too, as they counterbalance meditation. The way I see it both are equally important. If you wish to become stronger you must eat right to feed your body, after that you must do the correct exercises till tired, and then rest deeply to recover, and repeat. Doing this builds momentum, just like rocking on a swing, higher and higher. For every action there must be an opposite and equal reaction. Both meditation and active exercise must be in a good balance if you wish to move forward. Maybe Jing Dong Gong blends meditation and movement, I don't know as I haven't practiced it. I want to experiment with trying to gain control of my physical body while deep enough in trance to see with my eyes closed. If I can integrate both states into one state I may be able to be in both worlds at the same time, and get some interesting results.

The goals of spirituality are as numerous as their are practices. The answer to your question depends on your goal for your practice. Do you have a clearly defined goal? If so what is it? Some schools teach a philosophy, in which case no work need be done. Some schools teach how to build a spiritual body to carry your consciousness past death in which case work does need to be done. And there is everything in between too. There is an overwhelming amount of disinformation available on the internet on the subject, look for the schools that get results, don't bother with those who don't.

I never said it should be difficult. It becomes difficult for most people because they do not understand the state they are trying to get to in meditation, so they are just stuck spinning their wheels in the mud thinking they are moving forward. I won't argue about it further, I only know what I've been taught and what I've experienced for myself. If you are convinced what you are doing is working, then by all means keep doing it. I am not here to stop you, or tell you that you're are doing it wrong.

I guess maybe we are comparing apples to oranges, tummo/mo pai/longmen pai are different practices from stillness movement. All I know is what I've been taught and what I myself have observed and experienced. According to my research and observation, it is not possible to fill the lower dan tein without a lot of deep meditation and focus. If you can't go deep into meditation it could take several years of daily practice even. If the end goal is not to fill up the LDT then it doesn't really matter, but there is no other way to do it that I am aware of.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_particle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawking_radiation According to Stephen Hawking, At the edge of a black hole which is known as the event horizon, the gravity is so strong it breaks apart a virtual particle pair, and sucks in the anti particle, which slowly eats away at the black hole, and it releases the regular particle back into the universe. Eventually the black hole will evaporate and cease to be. If you can take nothing, and split it into matter and anti matter, then it really isn't nothing now is it? Basically my current understanding of physics is that if you have a strong enough negative energy field (gravity so strong it is like the event horizon of a black hole), you can create both matter and antimatter from nothing because it isn't nothing, its full of virtual particle pairs, if you combine matter and anti matter you will see an explosion of positive energy equal to the amount of negative energy needed to create them in the first place.

All I know is what I've studied, about the most famous systems like Buddhist tummo (inner fire), Mo Pai, and Longmen Pai. All start with deep meditation, all focus on filling the lower dan tein via meditation. Also from my own personal experience and observation it isn't possible to gather qi and store it in your body unless in a deep trance state. Of course every system has different goals, and it may not be necessary to fill the LDT in your system. I've never invested much time researching stillness movement qigong.

I debated posting here but I thought maybe someone might get some use out of my research. First off I'm not enlightened, and I am not interested in trying to become enlightened unless achieving it meant never being reborn (should the cycle of rebirth exist which I think it likely does, based on observations from masters like Wang LiPing and John Chang) The most common and excepted definition of enlightenment is a permanent state of non dual awareness (no self/other dichotomy, you and your environment are one entity not separate things) Everyone has a different idea for it, and no one can agree on one standard definition. Read Mastering The Core Teachings of The Buddha by Daniel Ingram M.D. and see some of the many different models that exist for enlightenment. I think in the intellectual sense the most common and accepted definition of enlightenment is attaining non-dual awareness which lasts until death. The mind is conditioned from birth to break apart reality into things and stick labels (words) on them. In reality there are no things, everything is one. From space you can see a galaxy as one thing, zoom in to a solar system and you can see it as one thing, zoom in on a planet and you can see it as one thing, zoom in and see beings that inhabit it, and see each as one thing, zoom in on their cells, and see each as one thing, zoom in again on their molecules and they appear as one thing, zoom in again on the atoms that make up those molecules and they appear as one thing, zoom in on the subatomic particles, and they appear as one thing, and then their constituents...... Ad infinitum. Everything we observe appears as something separate from the rest because our minds are conditioned to think that way, and break the whole into chunks. Enlightenment as I understand it de-conditioning your mind to break apart reality into separate things and see everything as a whole including yourself till your death. I am not sure that is what I am seeking, but I find it fascinating. My primary goal for life is another definition of enlightenment which focuses on ending the cycle of rebirth. Here are Jed's McKenna's (claims to be enlightened) thoughts on enlightenment: http://www.youtube.c...h?v=4lqKr_f4dL4 and http://www.youtube.c...h?v=AXmzcroUmdU More of my thoughts on nonduality: There is no you, there is only the experience OF you. Every belief, opinion or preference you have ever held or will ever hold, every thought you have had or will ever have, or memory you have ever remembered; has forever and will only ever exist inside of your own mind, and not external to it. Furthermore everything you've ever seen, heard, smelt, felt, tasted, intuited, remembered, or otherwise experienced has occurred not in some external reality but rather inside your own mind. When you experience something as occurring external to yourself, what you are witnessing is not an event outside of yourself, it is purely an internal phenomenon. What I am trying to say in more scientific terms is that bio-electro-chemical messages travel from your sense organs and are sent into your brain, and it interprets these signals and makes sense of them. What is being seen is the interpretation of reality your mind creates, not some objective reality external to you. Our experience is NOT the thing we observe, but rather more like a painting or a map of the thing our brain is creating a representation of. The reality we experience is purely a mental construct, and itself has no reality external to the mind. All thoughts, memories, ideas, opinions, verbalizations, vizualizations, have no reality external to the human mind. All beliefs are maps created by the mind to make sense of reality, however almost all confuse their maps of reality, with reality itself. The map is not the territory, it's a map which represents the territory. See this painting: It reads in English: "This is not a pipe" It is not a pipe, it is a painting representing a pipe. Just as all memories, ideas, concepts, opinions, verbalizations, and visualizations are not reality itself but rather a painting representing reality. The human ego, personality and identity are self created beliefs, and also have no reality independent of the mind. So when we burn all our assumptions, beliefs, opinions, paintings, maps and self-made abstract representations of reality to ash, what remains? Who remains? Nothing, and no one, forever. My personal theory is that all that exists is purely information and nothing more, we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, consciousness is both one whole and infinite. We are like waves moving through an ocean of consciousness, perceiving ourselves as separate while still being a part of the whole.

Remember that energy techniques only work if you have chi to work with before hand, and you only accumulate and store chi via deep meditation. Meditation is the base practice for nearly all schools, because you are accumulating chi to use for active exercises.

Download the mp3 I posted above, and use headphones, sit in a recliner and make yourself comfortable, use a sleep mask or a mindfold, focus on breathing deeply and slowly with your abdomen, and relax and go as deep as you can. It isn't as hard as it sounds at all.

Right before you go so deep you can't see or hear or feel etc, right before that is a good time to work with your schools techniques as energy sensitivity is higher than normal, but if you keep going into the void, you will pop back into another body, where you see with eyes closed. When in that state energy work is on another level. I think maybe the state of emptiness has it's own use to balance things out automatically. I remember playing with it some and found just being in the emptiness for some time may be able to replace some need for sleep.

I highly recommend spring forest qigong http://www.springforestqigong.com and longmen pai. Wang Liping's (longmen pai) new training manual has just been translated: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1470174545

Well I can make myself feel the sensation of qi, but it's not the same, not even in the same ballpark. Being that far in trance, you can feel energy currents so strongly you will not believe it. It's completely freaky. I would estimate that I can feel my sensitivity to energy increased by at least 100x when I am in deep trance, as compared to a normal waking state. You can do whatever you want with it, it's not a technique at all. It is the state you are supposed to be in to do other techniques that your school teaches. Does that make sense?

I have to be in an extremely deep trance to get that far, and I know that when I start seeing again with eyelids closed that I am deep enough to start training. There are many different schools and all teach different energy work techniques. Getting into deep trance is just the spring board. You get to that state first, then work with whatever techniques you've been taught. When you are that deep in meditation you can easily feel energy, it's like our normal body is numb to energy sensations, but in deep trance it's completely natural. In deep trance you can feel chi so strongly it is AMAZING. That's the key to work with energy when in a deep trance and not before. Does that make sense?

No prob I hope you enjoy it. It can be used with headphones or speakers.

I made this for you guys. It should be small enough to fit on a standard CD-R if you wish to burn it to disk. I was googleing some sounds and found some hour long mp3's of ocean waves and tibetian singing bowls and use a program to mix the two together. I realllllly like it a lot, like better than other professional meditation programs. This contains no binaural beats or anything else, it's just singing bowls and ocean waves. It is a huge file as I tried to preserve audio quality, it's a 320kbps mp3 and over an hour in length. I am trying not to eat my server's bandwidth up, so here is a mirror: http://www.uberg33k.org/Meditation-MP3.zip and a free hosting mirror: http://www.filefactory.com/file/42qep1j16wgf/n/Meditation_mp3 I hope you guys find it useful