Thunder_Gooch

I am curious what you define enlightenment to be, if we are all already enlightened.

It depends on what you are really seeking, enlightenment means something different to each person so you need to define what it is you really want. Most of what I have read about enlightenment from people who claim it, is that it is a semi permanent state of nondual awareness, where they and what "they" experience is one unified whole. The mind doesn't break reality down into this or that or self and other, there is just what is observed the bare sensory experience itself. If that is what you are looking for I recommend you looking into Jed McKenna's audiobooks, Steven Norquist's essays and books, as well as Daniel Ingram's work. http://www.spiritualteachers.org/norquist_article.htm http://www.wisefoolpress.com/ http://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Core-Teachings-Buddha-Unusually/dp/1904658407/ If you are looking into achieving immortality of the mind and spirit I suggest you look into neigong in general such as longmen pai. http://www.laoziacademy.us/ Unfortunately there is no pill you can take or quick fix to bring you there yet, all the real paths I've read about require lifetimes of daily committed practice. In a Buddhist sense Daniel Ingram, Jed Mckenna, and Stephen Norquist might get you there in 3 to 5 years, but I really don't know from personal experience as what they offer really isn't what I am seeking. I see enlightenment as a worthy goal but ultimately futile if it is lost at death and you are reincarnated in an unenlightened state again.

Daniel Ingram MD and self claimed Arahat and all the other masters I've read about weren't already enlightened or already immortal beings. It was a process which took much training and much effort. Here are some snippets from Daniels thoughts on the subject of "you are already enlightened, and should do nothing." http://www.interactivebuddha.com/bullshit.shtml

This thread really makes me think of this:

It isn't an extreme position, it's common sense imho. I never said or meant to imply you couldn't achieve something that a master could, actually I would think the direct opposite. Almost everyone has the potential to achieve a very high level and be worth of being called a master given correct practices for their goals and enough hard work and dedication. There are a lot of end goals for practices and a lot of practices, I think we need to look for masters, schools and systems that have accomplished what we seek to achieve and learn from them, to me that makes the most sense.

I agree with Daniel Ingram, he is one of the few reputable people to publicly claim to be an arahat. He is also a medical doctor. I think saying no one needs to do anything as we are all already at our destination is blatantly false. I think saying that all practices can accomplish any and every possible goal, is also blatantly false. I'm not trying to be a party pooper or start an argument by saying "my practice is better than your practice" but those seems a very logical and reality based observations. Just my $0.02

To the "you don't need to do anything, because you are already there and enlightened" folks: http://www.interactivebuddha.com/bullshit.shtml -Daniel Ingram

I think we can safely say not all paths accomplish the same goal, that's why there are so many different paths. We need to clearly define what our goal is and then find schools and teachers that have accomplished it already and learn from them. I think it is a little silly to say all paths are as good as each other for all goals. Lets take a non spiritual goal. Let's say your goal is to become wealthy via your career, getting a job that pays $50.00/hr is going to be a better choice than a minimum wage job for your stated goal.

reddit high 5

I was frustrated trying to show friends the original video and them not having the attention span to watch it and understand what it was about. I edited out all but the most important bits and trimmed it down to as short a video as was possible. I hope someone here might find it useful. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoOgZsQGQpA

Most likely the school was closed after master Liao (Chang's teacher) visited him mentioned at the end of the original video. This was probably filmed in 2003 I guess and made it to television probably 2006. That's my best guess.

2006-2007 I think, some of the older footage was from the 80's.

It is my belief Chang requested to be filmed again to inspire people to seek out neigong schools and keep the practice in general alive. In the video Dr. Blair plainly says that is the case. Even though his school is closed to westerners, I still admire him for inspiring us.

Andreas, It makes me really sad that someone I look up to like you, thinks so badly of me. I realize the school is closed to westerners and Chang has retired and wishes to be left alone, but this video of him still serves as an inspiration to many myself included. I hope people will seek out other neigong schools like longmen pai, or bak fu pai, or any of the many other neigong schools. I will never give up hope and will go to China as soon as I am able to do so in search of other teachers. I am told that maybe there is still hope for westerners looking for the lineage in China even though the Indonesian school is closed to westerners. I am not sure what I have done to make you think I am so immoral. I guess you are referring to my forum, the only reason I created it would be so that people with an interest in neigong in general could discuss it without it turning into a bloody war zone, like it does here on thetaobums. I agree I would never be let into the school nor even into Master Chang's house, I am just a maggot not even worth him wasting his time to talk to, nor would I ever even attempt to bother him. I honestly hope one day to be worthy of meeting master Chang but sadly he will probably be dead by the time I am cultivated to a high enough level to deserve even to shake his hand. I revere masters like Chang and look up to them with the utmost respect. It has never been my intention to cause any problems for him, or you, or anyone else. I redid this video because I felt it needed to be done, not to cause any problems for anyone. My apologies and I am sincerely sorry I've upset you to such a degree. :/

I concede that catching a pellet from a pellet rifle or catching a newspaper on fire etc aren't really good demonstrations and can be easily faked. However usually if he were a fraud I would question his motives, as he can accept no money or even donations for healing or teaching students and he has since retired and stayed very reclusive. Obviously money and fame aren't motivating factors, so why perpetuate the fraud? He's had many students, there are a few books written about him by a student Kosta Danaos, Kosta was an mechanical engineer for General Dynamics and tried his best to find the fraud during demonstrations. You can look his books up on amazon. More advanced Indonesian students were x-rayed and their naval chakra (dan tein) became opaque to the xrays at will. There are interviews up on youtube with another of his students Jim McMillian, search for john chang student and john chang student interview and you will find them. I have been told that the beginning exercises in Chang's school are included also in the longmen pai school or dragon gate school and I've practiced those and experienced things personally during training that proved to me that there is a lot we do not currently understand. For example when I was meditating in a deep trance state, my body grew cold and I felt heat and vibration at my naval chakra I would attempt to push this energy out and on every occasion I did so I could wake a sleeping person in the same household at the exact instant I attempted it. I repeated this test on many occasions and got instant and direct feedback, hearing them waking up as if having a nightmare. I do not think this is likely to be self delusion, it was a direct cause and effect relationship. I used to be an staunch atheist however until I had experiences which changed my world view. There is a lot we do not understand. I realize some person on the internet telling you they experienced something proves absolutely nothing, I am sure lots of people get abducted by interdimensional aliens on a daily basis, but for me this is as real as it gets as I've experienced it first hand and know it to be real. There is a lot more I wish I could say on the subject but really it's not my place to do so, and would probably wind up causing me a lot of problems as well. I don't think anything I could say really could convince you anyway. I'd venture to guess nothing short of seeing an in person demo, or having Chang win the Randi challenge would be sufficient.

I think maybe if you you could find a partner that shared your spiritual goals and practice and passion then maybe a relationship without children could benefit you, however good luck finding that. I've had many relationships but all of them proved extremely time and money intensive so much so they would limit the amount of time you could put into training. John Chang and Wang Liping both have wives and families so it is possible, but I think a person can go further alone.

He's absolutely legit, if you research it a bit more you will notice he's demonstrated much more amazing things than this, never charged anyone a dime for teaching or healing, and he doesn't want the fame as he is very reclusive. Edit: I updated the video to remove the newspaper scene.

Might your other names be lucas huang, or thetaobum? Also I like your use of whois guard on your domain to keep people from knowing the real name of the person who registered it.

+1

This max kunlun guy with the glowing hands is a known fraud as well as his top students with pictures of them disappearing or whatever.

I've thought about buying Gary's mindlight course and nei kung bible but his prices are a bit too much for me. I wonder if it is the real deal. There is so much information out there and I wonder which systems actually work.

guys please watch this: