Thunder_Gooch

I have to disagree here. You can put in all the practice you like, but if you aren't in the right state of consciousness and can't maintain mental focus maybe 2% of the effort you are putting in is being utilized. Something which should take a few months at most can take 10 or more years as a result. Again I will have to disagree. Quality and not quantity. 15 minutes here and there isn't the same, if you are not in the correct state of consciousness and can't maintain mental focus. Accurate teachings matter most, it doesn't matter if you have a real and authorized teacher of some system if no one in the history of said system has ever accomplished anything. While some may believe in the requirement of transmission, I do not. You can indeed learn this knowledge on your own as an autodidact, most just lack the will power and determination to do so.

Perhaps once you are very advanced, but in my experience it isn't anywhere near the same level of deep trance. _________________________ Many people I meet would rather practice 15 minutes a day than for a solid few hours once a week. Quality and not quantity is important. It takes me many hours just to even hit a deep state of trance for training, so there is no point even attempting meditation if I can't dedicate the whole day to it. Anyone who has ever achieved a deep state of trance, will understand the gulf between working with energy in that state vs normal waking consciousness. Sensations you can convince yourself you are feeling while in normal waking consciousness, in my experience are not on the same level as being in deep trance. (not even in the same ballpark) It also in my experience is not possible to be up and around and moving and maintain deep trance.

There are varying degrees of it. Lot's of this too:

I don't like newagers, I tell them so in person in real life. If me ranting about newagers offended you my apologies it wasn't aimed at you personally, just the newage community in general.

I see various cases for what happens after death. 1. Eternal afterlife. 2. Eternal nonexistence. 3. Reincarnation. The only of these three I find totally unacceptable is reincarnation.

Not that I am aware of no.

Perhaps the energy you call yin does exist and you do feel it, what it is I can't say. What I do know though, is that the energy of the school I study and is called yin cannot be felt by a normal human mind, until yin and yang are brought together. Even if an insanely large amount was pushed into your body by force, the most you would feel would be a feeling of fullness, like your bladder was being squeezed, no rush of cold, no magnetic feelings, etc. It's an energy completely unknown and imperceptible to normal human minds.

I know of not one individual who claims and has backed up such an attainment. If that's the case then it simply doesn't work for it's stated goal. Siddhis are not the end goal, but are not optional either. You can't not develop them and still progress in the system. I've seen no documentation of anyone attaining rainbow body.

If you are using a neti pot, for (insert expletive of your choice here)'s sake boil your water. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/tap-water-in-neti-pots-behind-two-brain-eating-amoeba-deaths-in-2011-investigation-finds/ http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2011/12/19/143960631/second-neti-pot-death-from-amoeba-prompts-tap-water-warning http://blogs.webmd.com/breaking-news/2011/12/brain-eating-amoeba-in-neti-pots.html

That it takes two (or more) to tango?

If at one time Buddhism openly taught methods to end rebirth it no longer does. Millions of times more seekers practice Buddhist paths, than do Mo Pai. I have heard of not one Buddhist practitioner who has anything to show for it. (masters of tummo aside) At best it might narcotize someone to death and rebirth, making them at peace with it. In my opinion as far as ending rebirth what is available now under the banner of "Buddhism" is worthless. If such Buddhist techniques and methods are still taught somewhere they are not out in the open.

I was wondering if any Xiao Yao Pai adepts could give some details on the seated meditation with the early levels of practice. Does it involve any form of circulation? Can you give any type of information about what state of mind is like during the meditation etc. Anything without revealing training info?

Kind hard to drive very far with an empty gas tank, same concept. In my experience chi cannot be worked with outside of deep trance. Mental focus though is the method used to put yang chi in the LDT, but if not in deep trance it won't matter much. Visualization is a hindrance, visualizing working with energy exists in your imagination only, chi is felt not visualized. There will be absolutely no doubt you are feeling chi, it's not the same as what you feel in a waking state of consciousness either. Chi can't be worked with outside of deep trance.

To be honest the less information I give others to use as ammo against me in debate and arguments, the better. What I have seen and experienced, really is private and best kept that way. I met Jim McMillan in 2006. I've logged as many hours as have been realistic while working full time. I don't want you to assume I know anything though, I want you to assume that Jim McMillan and Kosta Danaos being students of Chang do know what he taught. What I think shouldn't factor into the equation, Jim's and Kosta's words should speak for themselves. When Jim released his book, everyone teased and taunted him over how bad the grammar and spelling was, and chided him about not having a proof reader and editor. He was the top western student surpassing many of his Indonesian seniors even. Yet, they made him out to be an idiot who didn't know what he was talking about. “A dog is not considered a good dog because he is a good barker. A man is not considered a good man because he is a good talker.” -Chuang Tzu If I were a level 72 master I would would be on the attack even more so. The way I see it most teachers spread disinformation, and create an ocean of fake nonsense that leads people away from real teachings. I am ashamed in real life to call myself spiritual, to identify with any type of energetic practice, to even speak about it in public. This is because peoples idea of spirituality get's drawn to newage nonsense, and it is next to impossible to break the connotations that go with it. This whole spiritual culture that exists is in my opinion the literal antithesis of true spirituality. Seeing as I want the culture to change, yes I guess I will always be on the attack. I know of only a handful of mo pai practitioners who post on this board, at most 5. I don't believe I've ever argued with them. The arguments come from people who don't understand level one even.

Don't assume because someone is regarded as a popular teacher they have "the most experience and knowledge". Don't assume everyone who get's labeled an arm chair theorist is. The most recent example of this was a teacher claiming that all systems work with the same yin chi, there isn't more than one energy called yin chi by any system on earth, that yin chi can be absorbed ungrounded up in the sky in an airplane, synthetic materials do not block it's flow, and a normal human mind in a waking state of consciousness can perceive yin energy. This is a direct contradiction to what another school and even more famous master teaches. The solution to this contradiction? Attack the character of the people pointing it out, rather than swallow his pride. Things like: "I am a teacher, you have only watched DVDs, read books and talked to students." "I am a teacher, you are a pimply faced teenage goon living with his parents." "Your school/teacher never taught that, you misunderstood, you are a neophyte." "You are a arm chair theorist with no first hand knowledge." I personally care about the truth, and I despise spiritual roleplay and make believe. Things don't have to be so complicated. Sometime popular teachers are better at creating cult of personality, than any energetic developments. Sometimes popular teachers teachers are wrong, especially when they claim to speak for all systems outside of their own. There would have been no fight had he conceded something like: "Your system works with something which behaves completely opposite of what mine does, yet they share the same name for it. Perhaps each system works with something different, I can't speak for systems outside of my own." Working to discredit the person pointing out the contradictions between their teachings and those of other schools says a lot about the character of the teacher caveat emptor

I don't believe that's what I said at all MooNiNite. A master of meditation who can remain in deep trance 10 hours a day, and remain focused like a laser while grounded to the earth could complete level 1 in 10 days. However it takes most westerners who attempt it ~4000 hours or so, or about 10 years for most at one hour per day. If you mean I don't understand past level 2, you are correct I do not. I do however grok the first few levels. I am not apart of the group who made up it's own mo pai levels and roleplays that it has fused yin and yang. Train in what exactly, make believe levels that are being associated with mo pai but have nothing to do with it? Train in a made up make believe system that doesn't do anything, taught by a bunch of guys who do not understand what level one is even about? What is it these beginners are going to learn other than delusion? Lot's of people believe lot's of silly things. We can play make believe or we can get serious and pursue something meaningful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m3d_F6Fv6g http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0058244 The g-tummo meditative practice controls "inner energy" and is considered by Tibetan practitioners as one of the most sacred spiritual practices in the region. Monasteries maintaining g-tummo traditions are very rare and are mostly located in the remote areas of eastern Tibet. The researchers collected data during the unique ceremony in Tibet, where nuns were able to raise their core body temperature and dry up wet sheets wrapped around their bodies in the cold Himalayan weather (-25 degree Celsius) while meditating. Using electroencephalography (EEG) recordings and temperature measures, the team observed increases in core body temperature up to 38.3 degree Celsius.

Lot's of good evidence on tummo here: http://thetaobums.com/topic/31216-best-hard-evidence-for-real-abilities/

Ending the cycle of rebirth via spiritual immortality. yang chi.

I'd like to issue a challenge to the community. Most of you don't like me, and I don't like most of you. You want me gone, and I don't particularly like being here either. So let's reach some sort of closure shall we? I feel you guys need to cough up some sort of cathartic hair ball, before you can move on so either we will get this hairball out or I will get banned from this forum. My idea is for you all to post in my personal practice forum here: http://thetaobums.com/topic/33037-community-challenge/ Say whatever you want, pick a fight if you want, whatever, no holds barred. But let's get this out of your system, or let's reach the point that my account is banned. The gauntlet has been thrown down.

We have different definitions of "closed" seeing as it's been posted on about 1000 different forums and torrent sites. What we do have is a poor signal to noise ratio with lots of people screaming and running around like decapitated chickens spreading false training information, which makes finding real information very difficult.