Thunder_Gooch

Nothing more can be said, the guy is breaking the law, just because I didn't provide him with the opportunity to defraud me does not mean he is not a criminal. Best of luck to you, you'll need it if associate with criminals.

He never got a money order from me, I was at the post office ten minutes after he told me he "couldn't" sell to me. So no, no crime occurred between him and I personally as I proactively prevented it from occurring. This person however is selling other people's systems as his own, and making lots of money doing it, claiming to have a fake school and a fake guru and a bunch of dvd's he pirated and sold to other people as his own materials. That absolutely is about as big a scam as it gets my friend. If you are his buddy in real life I suggest you distance yourself from him, if you assist him in receiving money and he sends them pirated copyrighted goods you are an accessory to the crime. This guy is going to run into some serious legal trouble and everyone associated with him is going to be sucked into it. Best stay away with a 100ft pole.

A person who copies other peoples dvd's and sells them as his own is a scammer. A person who sells fake systems and fake lei shan dao gurus to people is a scammer. There is no better word for it, and it isn't name calling. What he is doing is highly illegal. I probably should have western unioned him the money so I could driven my happy butt out to Ohio and filed a police report when he failed to deliver. Sorry I didn't take one for the team here.

I can say with 100% absolute certainty that the person known as electric gravity and thundermind absolutely is a scammer.

EG didn't have the opportunity to scam me because I took immediate action with my postmaster after he told me he would not sell to me (after he was notified of payment sent) EG had me send payment to a person who knew nothing about the situation. The location of the address I was provided with was about 30 minutes away or less from TM's last known physical address. He had no knowledge that payment was coming. This person claimed to be friends with EG/TM, but he was unaware that EG/TM had given out his address and name for other people to send payment to. He was upset to learn this, and claimed he would speak to his friend about this asap. This is assuming the person I spoke with was telling the truth, and wasn't EG/TM playing dumb. Assuming the person I called wasn't really EG/TM playing dumb, then he is using people he knows locally to launder his money so he doesn't accept it directly. I've spoken with 2 people now who claim that EG/TM ripped them off, as well as the matter of selling copies of Gary Clyman's DVDs as his own. Also he insisted on using western union which I refused to send payment with. He is most certainly a scammer. Also your use of an army of new accounts to defend yourself isn't fooling anyone

I believe that thetaobum is probably somewhere between 35-40 years old. In an earlier message to me he claimed to be driving 19 years without an accident before his car accident. Assuming he started driving at 17-18 (which is when you are allowed to in Australia) that puts him at 36 or 37 years of age. He also referred to me as young man, which is something a teenager would not do. The recent young avitar is either a much younger portrait of himself or someone else altogether.

It is absolutely certain that EG/TM is a scammer. I actually called the person who's address EG/TM gave me. He claims to have no knowledge of thetaobums, and never gave his friend who is into taoist stuff his permission to use his address to accept western union payments or postal money orders made payable to him.

I may be wrong that Electric Gravity/Thundermind (both from same area in Ohio USA) was the same person as Lucas/thetaobum (both from Brisbane Australia) Sorry. When EG/TM claimed he couldn't sell to me because he was having bad karma after I sent payment(the same excuse the ttb used after payment was sent) I was certain that they were the same person. I find it odd that this behavior is shared between two separate individuals with the same MO. Absolutely bizarre in my opinion.

This is almost correct. I paid $150, never got the book, waited. We agreed I would send $150 more and he would this time email me the book, or use ups. He quit talking to me for a long period of time, and I filed a claim with paypal. I received $150 back from paypal after the claim was decided in my favor, this is not the same as a refund. This means $150 is still owed, as of today he has given me $25 refund via paypal, I agreed to take away another $25 as he claims to be out money from sending the book the first time, this brings the amount he owes to $100 which should take about 4 months to repay at $25 a month.

Dear Connected Taoist, Electric Gravity most certainly is a scammer. I called and spoke with the person's whose name and address he provided me with. He knew nothing about any of this and hadn't given EG/TM permission to use his address to accept payment. He claimed not to have internet, nor to know what thetaobums was. He was going to talk with his friend who was into Taoist studies and john chang as he seemed very upset by this. Or so he says if he really wasn't EG/TM himself playing dumb. Also I payed thetaobum a total of $300.00 and I was able to get the last payment of $150 back. ttb also refunded me $25 and I agreed to knock of another $25 because he says he is out for the shipping and handling of the first book he claims to have mailed out to me but never arrived. this brings his outstanding balance to me down to $100.

I believe this is my fault. I may have jumped to conclusions. The reason I believed that electric gravity/thundermind was also thetaobum was because after I sent payment to EG/TM he said he couldn't sell to me as he was having bad karma. This was exactly the same excuse thetaobum gave me after he was already paid twice for the book. I was able to recover the letter I sent EG/TM via form 1509 and having my postmaster call his postmaster and return the letter to me. Originally he had insisted on western union, and was reluctant to accept a money order. I actually took the time to look up the name and address EG/TM provided me with in the ohio white pages online, and I gave the guy a call to find out if he knew anything about this. The person I spoke with claimed to know a person into Taoist studies and interested in John Chang. He confirmed that his name and address were the ones EG/TM provided me with. He said he had never given EG/TM permission to use his address to receive money or to pickup a western union payment. He further claimed not to know what thetaobums was, and did not even have internet at his house. He seemed upset and told me he would speak with his friend and was deeply troubled by this. I do not know if the person I spoke with was telling the truth, or was really EG/TM playing dumb but either way this person certainly is a scammer and deserves no apology.

It is my opinion the book doesn't exist, and you and lucas are either friends in real life or the same person altogether. I do not know the truth, but honestly it is too much for me to believe that both you and lucas are from Brisbane Australia and you just happen to be the first one to find this book an announce it here.

I do not believe lucas even has a copy of this book, I've spoken to a few people who are out the money they sent lucas and he never sent them anything. Assuming that ttb isn't lucas himself (as they both live in Brisbane Australia), if ttb actually got a copy, he seems to be the exception to the rule.

I sent $150, he claimed to send the book December 2010. I received nothing so I paid him $150 again to scan and email it or send ups with a tracking number, he did agree to scan and email/ups it before I sent the money again. Weeks go by and he stops replying to messages or emails so I file a claim with paypal to get a refund. At this point he says he cannot do business with me for karmic reasons. I received a refund of $150 from paypal, which brought us back to $150 total owed. He made a payment of $25 to me as a partial refund, and I am giving him $25 because he claims to be out of pocket with expenses related to sending the book the first time. This means he only owes me $100, and at $25 per month this should take about 4 months.

If you really did send the book the first time, I can't for the life of me see why you had such a big issue with scanning and emailing or resending via ups with a tracking number for an additional $150, especially since you agreed to it. I don't really want to do any further business so this isn't an invitation, but I can't understand the logic involved.

I've agreed to $25 a month. He says he has no money to pay me and that is the most he can do. I will give him the benefit of the doubt on this one.

It was never my intention to get anyone banned even hardcore scammers like Elijah Wilson, banning scammers doesn't get rid of them anyway, it just makes them use a proxy severs and new accounts. I only wanted to make everyone aware that there are scammers here, and that it is best to conduct all business here via ebay and paypal. As a buyer you are much safer using ebay/paypal to do business. I have sold several items here on thetaobums, spring forest qigong level 3 and 4 cd's as well as the complete springforest qigong course on dvd. The robert peng dvd and cd course. Each time however I used ebay, and treated it like I would any other ebay sale. Had the person had an issue I would have refunded the money immediately upon getting the item back. As a seller I have flawless feedback on ebay.

Originally I sent you $150, you claimed to mail the book in December 2010, but nothing ever arrived. I sent you another $150 and you agreed to resend the book, but this time you would email it or you would send it via ups with a tracking number so it couldn't get "lost" again. At this point after the money had been sent a second time, you stopped talking to me for a long period, so I assumed it was a scam and initiated a paypal claim. Paypal decided in my favor and I was refunded $150. Recently you refunded me $25, so that brings us to $125 you still owe me. You claim you mailed the book and to be out of pocket for the expenses related to that. I will give you the benefit of the doubt, even though I do doubt. So I will knock off another $25. This brings us to $100 you still owe me. At $25 per month you should be able to repay the amount owed in 4 months which is fine by me. After I am paid in full I will issue you an apology, however I would still advise for no one to do business with you or Lucas if you are not him. If you paid lucas and got a copy of this text you seem to be the exception to the rule. Also I have not taken money from anyone else towards a group purchase. I've never heard of packages taking 4 months to go from Australia to the USA, if it takes that long it's gone for good usually. However if at any time in the future I get a package from you that had been lost and it contains the book I will make sure you get the money you were promised.

I just wanted to update Ken and everyone else, I worked out a deal to receive small monthly payments for the $150 I am owed and so far so good. I will issue him a public apology when paid in full. He may not be Elijah as I am fairly certain he lives in Australia, but I do find all of these coincidences too weird for my mind to comprehend. I hate being angry with people, it makes me feel really sick internally. My anger is hard to contain and turns me into someone I don't like being. I still wouldn't waste my money buying this book however.

Thanks very much for this, I ordered the book. If you have any more book recommendations neidan or neigong related please let us know.

To be honest I don't know why it is so important for you to defend lucas and this book as both being legit, unless you have something to gain from convincing people it is legit. I've spoken to two people know who claim to have sent lucas the money and never received anything back. I am fairly certain this whole thing is a scam, and the more you defend it the more it makes you look as though you are involved in it. I've given you a month or so to refund the money you owe, you've had my money since December 2010, you claimed to have mailed me the book but it never arrived, we agreed to me sending you another payment of the same amount as the first and you would resend the book either via email or via UPS with a tracking number asap, but you stopped talking to me for a long time so I filed a claim with paypal to get a refund. As it stands now even if you are honestly innocent and a victim of bad circumstances it looks like to me and everyone else here as though you are running a scam, defending a fake text to sell more copies of a fake book that you won't mail out under the alias of Lucas Huang who's last known paypal address was in Brisbane Australia the same area you live. I think it would be best if you stop defending this text as legit, or at the very least post the pages that deal with level one meditation which you discussed openly in the original thread about the book.

Even so that doesn't prove the book is legit, only that he has knowledge of those levels. He isn't interested in showing the actual pages that would prove this book is legit or not, only asserting that it is.

I like to fantasize about a real life commune for cultivators that allowed them to work a small part time job and live the rest of their life focusing on cultivation. Not like a cult where there is some centralized leader, but more of a group of like minded cultivators just doing their own thing, and getting the cost of living down as low as is absolutely possible. I've looked into the intentional communities site but haven't really found anything that sounds good at all. Living as a large group the cost of living would come down exponentially, and working a part time job would be possible while maintaining a high quality of life and having plenty of time for cultivation. Do you guys ever think we could make something like this work?