NotVoid

Cool. Thanks for the reply. No aches and pains is not a problem. All I would need you to do is see if you can perceive any noticeable difference at all over the next 24 hours or so after I try to to transmit 'positive healing intention' your way this evening. I typically spend about a half an hour or so doing this. Something that may or may not be an issue for you, but If you can avoid getting too intoxicated over the next 24 hours or so that would probably be a bonus as well. Need you reasonably clear headed. I will give it a go this evening then, and then if you can report back in a day or so if you felt anythingdifferent at all or not that would be great. Rest assured my intent is to only try to send some good positive energy vibes your way and see if you perceive anything at all. I have had some good positive results so far with remote energy transmission with some family members, and with a friend as well. Trying this with someone who I only know through a nickname on an internet forum is an interesting challenge.

I don't know that taoists would speak of potential as something that you store somewhere, but there is a good PDF e-book English translation available of a Chinese book on taoist practices and views by a taoist who studied taoism in a mountain taoist temple, in I think Lao Shan, before the Chinese cultural revoltuion destroyed or crippled much of the taoist temples and long standing taoist cultivation traditions. He goes into quite a lot of detail about the views and practices and what the practices are meant to achieve from his particular taoist tradition, which he refers to as a long standing authentic taoist tradition which he sees as a different tradition than many of the religious taoist traditions that have also arisen in China. He views his tradition of taoism as non-religious. He says taoist cultivation traditions actually arose from a period in time that long preceded the Yellow Emperor. The ebook PDF is available for purchase here: Dao and De - Life and Afterlife - by Wu Dao Zhenzi: http://qi.org/index.php?option=com_ezcatalog&task=viewcategory&id=3&Itemid=41 A free excerpt PDF from this ebook can be downloaded here; http://qi.org/daoanddesample.pdf I found the book to be quite informative.

Hmm, no one interested in trying such a simple experiment? It would take no time or effort on the part of the 'receiver' other than keeping a bit of an eye on how they feel over a period of about 24 hours or so after the 'transmission'. You don't need to have any aches and pains either. Anyone is welcome to give it a try. If you are sensitive to feeling qi, that might even be a bonus. Mainly I will just be trying to give the receiver a bit of an energy boost, to see if they can pick up any change in feeling in their energy level. Seems to have brought good results to some extent when I tried this a few times with my brother and a few other people I know, but it was of course just subjective reports on how they felt afterwards.

It seems an important concept in at least some of the taoist traditions I have come across that a person survives death in some form or other, call it spirit or soul or whatever, and going along with that is the concept of different 'spiritual' dimensions or realms. I am familiar with the terms xing and ming, which seem to be primarily associated with internal alchemy traditions in taoism, no? Anyway, I was just sort of curious why you would state that the highest potential of taoism is mainly with body and mind and that taoists do not believe in an afterlife, when actually many if not most taoist traditions appear to hold to the concepts of a spirit of some form and an afterlife of some sort. I don't think we can bypass such concepts in taoism so easily. Some of the taoist traditions I am familiar with have practices in which these other dimensions are explored in much detail, so that the student is supposed to learn through direct experience about such things. It is certainly a large part of some taoist traditions as best as I have been able to determine.

Hello ChiDragon. I am curious why you state your own personal beliefs and views as if they were absolute facts in regards to taoism as a whole (which includes a very broad spectrum of views and practices), rather than state them as just your own personal beliefs and the way you personally prefer to view things? Most certainly there are many traditions in taoism that involve a spiritual aspect, and which speak of different realms or dimensions. A person might nitpick about the exact appropriateness of the term 'spiritual', but from what I have seen it is an appropriate term to use for for many views and practices in many traditions in taoism, and probably is relevant to most traditions in taoism.

Sure, that could work, but I just want to try something pretty informal at this point though, if anyone is interested in trying.

Sure, I personally actually haven't encountered a teacher who actually spoke of 'filling the dantian'. That term seems to have come from the books about John Chang and Mopai, although maybe some other teachers use that terminology. In the internal martial arts they often talk about sinking the qi and I have run across teachers who refer to the lower dantain as a 'storage area' for qi as well, but really nothing about filling the dantian. Some talk of 'restoring the qi to fullness', which I guess is sort of similar. I have found that a lot of the terminology is very context based, and different teachers will use terms in their own way, so I personally try not to get too hung up on terms and expressions. Also I have found some terms may be used by the same teacher differently in different contexts, but that just seems to be a characteristic of the Chinese language/culture. The Chinese seem to speak a lot more symbolically or associatively, without everything having to be so clearly or rigidly defined or stated right out specifically. Definintely a different way of looking at things that no doubt trips up lots of Westerners until they get more used to it. The general idea seems to be, don't get hung up on the terms but just try to get the general idea conveyed by the terms and you will understand it better once you experience it. The experience can actually be quite a bit different than any terminology and concepts might ever convey anyway, so no point getting hung up on such stuff.

I think it really depends on what you are trying to achieve or what specific system you are referring to. Traditional internal cultivation systems often involve a fairly definite course of progression, unless you want to include systems like Chan buddhism and that sort of thing. Some internal cultivation systems may refer to 'filling' the lower dantian, while other systems may refer to 'developing' the lower dantian, and other systems may look at it in some other way altogether. All of this stuff seems to be very context based from what I have encountered, and I think that is something that may often be overlooked. The question might better be worded, how does some specific system taught by some specific teacher view such things? Very generally I think that it is not uncommon in various taoist internal cultivation or similar practices to work with the lower dantian in some way in beginning or earlier stages, and it may even be done rather indirectly in some cases, and there really seems to be various approaches in different systems and lineages and teachers from what I have been able to gather. In some systems the lower dantian is treated something like an energetic center or area, and in other systems I have run across they seem to be talking about compacting qi into an actual ball in the lower dantian and circulating that little ball of compacted qi or elixir, or whatever they might refer to it as, around their system in various ways, and who knows what else is out there.

Considering I have made it clear that I don't think real accomplished and qualified teachers of internal cultivation are so easy to find, your statement makes no sense. I knew you might respond this way to a differing point of view mr. More_Pie_Guy, as I have seen many of your comments here already, but I just wanted to add my thoughts to the overall discussion anyway. Others here may be a little more open to considering different points of view and other people's experience.

Hello mr. More_Pie_Guy. Interesting reply. I did not say anywhere that I think it is easy to find a qualified teacher. You seem to have just assumed that. I actually think such a thing is not so easy at all. However, in my experience there are not any perfect teachers out there as well, so I think a person has to find a teacher that they at least feel with some careful examination can give them proper guidance to move forward positively in their practice. I was referring specifically to authentic internal cutivation practices and not just health qigong and that sort of thing in my comments. There are all kinds of people these days who mix and match all sorts of practices that they get from books and DVDs and discussion forums, or who read a book or two by or about a particular teacher, and who post on various internet forums and that sort of thing, and who often seem to have an attitude that they have it all pretty much figured out, but I have to say that in my own opinion and experience I often actually see indications which these sorts of people display through their comments and behaviour that they likely have little or no real accomplishment and understanding at all, or they show signs of real imbalances of one sort of another, and more often than not they seem quite unaware of it unless something starts to impact them in a very obvious negative way. This is something that a good teacher would either nip in the bud fairly quickly or at least try to clearly warn the student about in one way or another. IMO, real Internal cultivation is not something that a person can likely at all just wing without getting off track. It can potentially bring about profound changes and interactions in a person's system, even without the person really being much aware of it. This is just based on my own personal views and experience of course. Everyone has to make their own decisions and face the consequences of their own actions. That is life. Maybe consider that those who express a different point of view than you are not necessarily 'critics', but just offering their own point of view and personal experience up in a friendly manner. That is where my comments are coming from anyway. Whether you find anything useful or not is totally your call.

Hello mr. More_Pie_Guy. IMO, there is a very good reason that often people of some real experience in internal cultivation practices point out that you need a qualified teacher to learn this stuff. It is not because people can't make progress on their own in this sort of thing, but it is because it is so easy to get off track without ever realizing it without the guidance of a qualified teacher. For example, when you insist that you feel you need to get into a deep altered state of some sort to have any much chance of making real progress, and that people who don't worry about such things and practice regularly even though they may not experience a deeply relaxed or altered state, are pretty much wasting their time, I am pretty certain that any experienced teacher in internal practices would likely tell you immediately to get such foolish notions out of your head and just start regularly practicing. The most important keys are a good sound method, guidance from an experienced and qualified teacher, and regular practice. Through regular and correct practice the student will naturally over time be able to get into 'deeper' states of relaxation. Everyone will progress at their own natural pace, and some people may excel at certain things while other people may excel at different things. On the other hand, if a student takes an attitude that they really 'just know how it all should be done' instead of following the teacher's advice, the chances of causing issues for them self such as causing imbalances and blockages and that sort of thing are much more likely. By taking an attitude that you must experience some expected thing before you can even start making progress sounds like a sure way to take what should be a natural process and impose all sorts of unecessary restrictions, and pressures and stresses (whether realized or not) which will more than likely just lead to imbalances and other issues than anything else. I am not a master by any means, but I will tell you a couple things that anyone who has practiced internal cultivation practices for any length of time should likely be aware of: 1) While it may be generally true that the deeper the state of relaxation and letting go you can achieve, the better, it is in no way required that you have to be deeply relaxed or have to be feeling lots of sensations to be making progress. Correct and regular practice is much more important, as I think any authentic teacher would likely point out. Also as I mentioned previously, a person will naturally be able to get into 'deeper' and more relaxed states over time through regular practice. 2) Any student who has practiced internal practices of one sort or another for any period of time would also likely be aware that they may actually be going into fairly deep altered states of consciousness fairly quickly in their practice without really being consciously aware of it at all (you may not notice a shift in consciousness at all) until some sudden sound or event suddenly snaps you out of it and gives a shock to your system which may make you jump half out of your skin, and then you realize that you really were in a quite deep altered state without having any conscious awareness of it. This is why people are typically advised to come out of stillness practice slowly to give them self time to gradually return to a normal state of waking state functioning. Natural, regular practice, preferably with at least occasional guidance from a good teacher, is the way to go, Taking an attitude that you pretty much know it all and that everyone else must be wrong is probably not a good idea IMO. Good luck in your practice.

What is the importance of neigong in internal martial arts? Well, according to a very highly respected bagua zhang practitioner from Beijing, Ma Chuanxu, practicing martial techniques in internal martial arts without first developing neigong (which primarily involves opening the small and large circulations) is just a waste of time from the point of view of ever developing high level internal martial arts skill. This is why authentic internal martial arts training primarily focuses on practices which develop neigong. In xingyi, they typically might do a lot of standing practice, while in bagua it is lots of basic circle walking, and in taiji regularly practicing the taiji form will develop neigong, although all of the internal arts may supplement with other neigong practices as well depending on the exact lineage and teachers. Can you achieve high level neigong if you do not maintain a long period of celibacy while developing your neigong skill? According to Ma Chuanxu, no, but men who are not celibate can apparently achieve a lower degree of neigong if they do not have too much sex. I am not sure if there is any such requirement for women, but it was primarily men who learned the internal martial arts during Ma Chuanxu's time, so that is why he likely didn't comment on the requirements for women. Ma stated that a serious internal martial arts student would need a period of about six years or so of celibacy to develop good neigong skill, and even then that is only if they are practicing very diligently and correctly of course. This would explain why so few internal arts practitioners reach a high level of internal skill, as the requirements and commitment is not at all easily achievable by most people. Ma did say that once you have achieved a good level of neigong skill that the practitioner can have sex once every two or three months without too much problem, (which should no doubt be reduced as you get older), but too much more than that and you will likely degrade your internal skill too much. You can read the whole interview with Ma Chuanxu by Jarek Szymanski from 2000 at the following link. I think it is very interesting reading for the student of the internal martial arts, or for anyone who is interested in understanding the requirements of authentic neigong training. It is not often that you get to hear a real master speak so openly about the requirements for training neigong in the internal martial arts. http://www.chinafrominside.com/ma/bagua/machuanxu.html Here's a video clip of Ma Chuanxu doing a little bagua and xingyi, probably from a number of years ago. Very fluid and soft, as authentic internal martial arts which are built on neigong require. Ma Chuanxu is probably around 80 years old now, based on the birthdate that Jarek indicated for him.

Interesting. Thanks for posting!

When you ask a question like this, you could get all kinds of answers from all kinds of people. Realistically there is no way of knowing if any answers you may get are even remotely related to reality. I think a much more important question is, are you looking for a better understanding of reality in any way at all, or are you just looking for some sort of support for your beliefs and ideas? Here's my answer, but it is certainly every bit as questionable as any other answer you will ever get: Sensations, perceptions, and feelings are sensations, perceptions, and feelings. Playing around with such things is playing around with such things. If you are lucky, you won't cause any harm to yourself.

I was just funning with you mr. marblehead. Merry Christmas to you, and to everyone else who may chance upon this today!

That may be so, one can never be sure, but it seems you are starting to repeat yourself based on what I read on the previous page. Maybe a tuneup of some sort is in order?

I was thinking that I might reply to some of the responses posted here, and then I thought how can I reply to someone when it is very obvious they didn't even bother to read through the whole Preface piece which you posted before they commented? If they didn't even bother to read through the text and posted a comment in which they strongly 'disagreed' with whatever they imagined the text was about, then they also may well wouldn't even bother to give any real consideration to anything I or anyone else might write as well in response to their own comments. I guess this is pretty much a product of where we are in our modern times. The external trappings of the belief systems and views have changed a fair bit over the centuries, but the tendencies toward blind adherence to certain currently popular points of view are still there operating in full gear. I personally think the text you posted holds a lot of interesting thoughts on the role that various spiritual and mystical practices and formalized religions may play in the grand scheme of things. This is going to be a cliché, but it really does seem that people all too often get hung up on viewing and judging individual trees, and lose sight of the forest, and how all the trees in the forest contribute to and are an integral part of the overall forest. I guess we can choose to spend much of our energy going around judging certain types of trees and saying we don't believe in them, or saying that we believe that they are inferior or useless or just illusion, and pointing out how we believe our own particular favorite trees are the greatest and only true trees in the forest; or we can just appreciate the wide diversity of the immense forest as a whole and sit back in awe of how all the individual parts that make up the whole contribute to the overall whole each in their own way, yet all individual parts are of the very substance which we call the forest. We can also take yet a different approach and look into that which brings the forest into existence and sustains it and directs it in all of its diversity and splendor. This aspect remains completely hidden and mysterious, yet how can we not at least wonder that something very mysterious and unseen appears to be giving direction, form, and sustenance to all things? Each person will approach this in their own particualr way, amongst many possible ways, as it appears this is the way of all things.

and a few more... You will have to go to the weblink that bka posted to see the captions. Actually I think I mixed in a few newer ones in there as well... Some really nice photos. and this is another good one:

Here's a few...

Nice. There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about religious/spiritual tradtions in modern times.That is not surprising however as world views have been changing a lot around the world in the last couple of centuries or so. It seems the prevailing beliefs and points of view in these modern times do not leave much room for or patience for anything that doesn't provide immediate personal mundane gratification.

Actually Confucian ideas and customs have long since been a very strong influence on most Chinese people. In my experience Chinese people typically do not, or at least did not until very recent times anyway, see a big deal about mixing or using ideas from different sources, such as taoism, buddhism, confucian, etc. For example, many Chinese taoists likely followed or were at least influenced by various confucian customs and ideas as well, and likely the same for Chinese buddhists and christians and muslims, etc., just like all Chinese people. Some of the later era taoist sects were strongly influenced by confucian and/or buddhist practices and ideas. People in the west seem to like to try to put things in neat little boxes in regards to this sort of stuff, but the reality is often a lot different than people's preconceptions in the west. Also, most actual practicing taoists seem to place strong emphasis on things like morals and virtue, filial piety, showing respect for elders, helping those in need, etc. There are always exceptions to any rule, but in general confucian ideas and customs seem to have had a strong influence to most everyone in China.

I am inclined to think that anything that helps to keep a person on a better track can not really be so bad. More important than that however, It seems conceivable to me that the biggest mistake a person can make is to think that they actually know something.

It sounds like they are only taking somewhere between 2 to 4 hours of sleep?