NotVoid

Maybe, but even TCM doctors use things like metal acupuncture needles and cupping to assist them in their healing... Sometimes tools can be quite helpful in certain situations...

Yes, I have heard of such qualities of silk before. Some people seem to assume that connecting oneself to ground with a wire indicates that some electrical effect is involved (if connecting oneself through a wire to ground has any real effect at all), but I am inclined to think that if there really is something to this at all, that what may be going on may not be so straight forward. Ok on that. I have started reading through the book, so I can get a good overview of all the different effects and results he encountered in his experiments.

Or maybe discuss invisibility.

You have offered apparent dire warnings, but you have provided nothing at all to back up your warnings. How would you expect anyone to take anything you say very seriously if you do not provide anything whatsoever to back up your warnings? Also, your question of 'why would you want to change your polarity?' makes no sense at all to me. Where does anything in this method indicate that one is 'changing their polarity'? Imagine a world where no one would be willing to investigate anything that is not already fully known and fully understood out of fear of the unknown. Where would our understanding be today? The author of the book has outlined various beneficial and unusual effects which he believed were demonstrated through various experiments he conducted over many years with this technique. I tend to be quite skeptical of such claims unless I can experience the claimed effects to some extent or other directly myself. The obvious reason I would want to experiment with this is to see for myself whether there really is something to the claims or not, and, if so, to try to understand better what is going on. Anything that can improve our understanding of the workings of qigong and related phenomena, and how it can impact our health is a good thing in my books. It only takes a willingness to look into such things. More often than not it seems many claims turn out to not hold up well under closer inspection, but when something appears to have been quite well investigated by someone under fairly controlled conditions over many years, then it may well catch my interest. What is referred to as 'qigong' and related may actually cover many different phenomena. Only by being willing to explore our nature can we have any hope of ever understanding it better. Your assumption that I would approach something like this without being quite cautious is just an assumption only. Of course I will be watching myself closely for any noticeable effects, whether positive or negative. P.S. I have on a number of occasions warned relative beginners here to not blindly undertake practices relating to qigong and neigong on their own, and to instead seek out a good teacher for guidance in such practices wherever possible. I would not go at anything like this completely blindly.

Thanks for the reply Ya Mu. I just made a simple Eeman Circuit using heavy duty aluminum foil sheets folded over a few times into squares for the plates, and I used long alligator clip leads I had available to make the connections to the plates. I also used aluminum foil plates for the hands, and just rested my hands, palms down, on the aluminum foil hand plates. I tried this for about an hour using the hands and head and lower spine 'connections', as per the diagram. Head to left hand, lower spine to right hand. It is hard for me to gauge as I always feel qi sensations when lying down and relaxing, from years of practicing qigong, but this preliminary trial does seem to indicate that this circuit might potentially have a balancing effect on a person's internal energy/energy body. It is way too soon to try to draw any conclusions of course, but I will keep experimenting with this over the next several months and see if I can notice any definite beneficial effects. Ya Mu, what do you mean by the 'double in-circuit'? Do you mean the circuit configuration which connects two people together? Andrei, Ok on how one aligns one's body compared to the Earth, etc. possibly having similar effects, or possibly being related. I personally would be hesitant to say that such things are working on exactly the same principles however, unless I had lots of experience with both methods and was quite sure that it was the same thing. P.S. Eeman's book is available as a PDF download from the following site. I would guess it is well passed its copyright expiry by now, since it was first published in 1947. Moderators: feel free to remove this link if you think it may be a copyright violation... Co-Operative Healing, The Curative Properties of Human Radiation - by Leon Ernst Eeman - 1947 http://www.leeeman.com/archive.html

Ish and Andrei: Thanks for the comments...

The symphony of nature: P.S. That recording of 'slowed down crickets chirping' posted in the original post here in this thread was supposed to have been made by a guy named Jim Wilson, and it appears that it must be very carefully processed and tuned and layered crickets sounds to artificially make it sound like a choir singing. There's more info here: http://www.snopes.com/critters/gnus/cricketsong.asp I did some experimenting slowing down cricket chirps in audio software to different speeds and it doesn't sound at all much like what is in that recording. Here is an example of someone who tried the same thing, and although a bunch of crickets chirping slowed down has some similarities at certain speeds, it really still doesn't sound like the 'musical choir' singing in that recording by Jim Wilson. It would seem there was definitely a lot of extra audio processing going on there, if that is really even crickets at all... The very first speed this guy slows the crickets down to does sound a bit choir like. With some careful tuning and editing and layering and manipulating it could maybe sound a lot more like a musical choir. http://soundcloud.com/darangatang/dawkins_chorus_of_crickets

[still the spamming continues... When even moderators are active in this spamming, I am reminded of the (translated) words of Dante ] Before me things create were none, save things Eternal, and eternal I endure. All hope abandon ye who enter here.

[if people actually read the first post in this thread by Silent Answers, you might realize that you are blatantly spamming his thread... ] Chatter boxes chatter water follows nature Be like water, my friend.

Surely others must have some sort of view or experience about this? What is your experience or understanding of the concepts of yin and yang as it relates to qi? Can some forms of qi be considered to be more yang or yin than other forms? Another example is the sun is supposed to emit very yang qi while the moon emits very yin qi... Do you feel such differences, and if so, in what ways do you experience this differently?

I still can't say that I have any clear idea what your own personal view is on yin and yang as it relates to distinct forms/sources/qualites of qi. Do you think qi can be categorized as yin or yang? If so what leads you to your view?

I hear what you are saying, but I think it is quite easy to get off track with this sort of thing. I am asking primarily about people's views and personal experience on the concepts on yin and yang as it relates to qi. For example, the view that 'Earth qi' is 'yin', and 'Heaven qi' is 'yang'. While I have had some experience with this qualitatively through zhan zhuang practice, I can't say that I could really make such clear distinctions, but that may be a matter of level of attainment and ability to perceive into deeper levels of subtlety. Perhaps somewhat further down the road in my practice this will begin to make more sense on an experiential level.

Yes, I think there does seem to be a theoretical basis to these concepts going all the way back to such ancient Chinese writings. It is just a matter of trying to make sense of these 'theories' in a practical sense, and being able to relate it in a meaningful way to one's personal experience...

It goes much beyond sensations in the hands. Whatever is affecting the lao gong points, moves through the whole body, and can have very noticeable impact on the body with continued practice, such as increase in energy levels and improvement in health. Experience would seem to indicate that whatever is going on is more than just sensations, at least. In regards to ideas about photons and ions, there may possibly be correlations, and to cosmic rays, etc., but until strong correlations can be shown then it is just ideas or possibilities that may be considered. In my own very limited experience, what is termed 'qi' does seem to be able to have different forms and show different qualities. While there may possibly be connections to what you describe, this may only be a part of it, and the concept of qi may possibly include other phenomena which as yet are still not understood, or it might be something altogether different than what we might imagine. Just as an example, in the internal martial arts there are considered to be different levels of attainment which correspond to a person's internal cultivation level. The internal experience changes over time as transformations occur, as does the interaction between internal and external change. There are various levels of attainment with different 'things' going on depending on the level of attainment.

Sure, as 'universe qi' suggests that this qi may be coming from different sources throughout the universe such as maybe stars, or maybe just permeates the universe. I don't know if what streams into the laogong say during zhan zhuang is more yin or yang, and that may vary depending on the exact practice, or if that even applies, but perhaps a person can learn to differentiate such things better with more experience...

Right, this would be my own impression as well, based on my own limited experience, but, then again, many traditions do seem to indicate that Earth qi is closely associated with 'yin' while universe qi/Heaven qi is closely associated with 'yang'. I don't know that there is really any straightforward answers to any of this, but I am interested in how people from different backgrounds and experience view such things. I am wondering if there is much consensus at all about such things from different traditions.

Andrei, Ok that's interesting. What leads you to think that this may be the case? In my own experience, doing certain practices I can feel something streaming into the lao gong points on my hands, and this can occur during complete darkness at night or during the day. Whatever is streaming in can be so strong that I sometimes feel a pressure pushing on my hands. Whatever it is that is streaming in does not seem to correlate directly to physical light based on the fact that this occurs equally as strong at night or day. Also, other practices such as stillness meditation seem to cause/allow qi of some form to increase and accumulate, although I have no idea where this qi may be coming from since I am just sitting calm and stilling my mind as best I can. I personally am not convinced that things are so straightforward. I have run across descriptions of celestial or universe qi (AKA Heaven qi), which may well be related to what I experience when I experience qi of some sort streaming in through the lao gong points, but qi also accumulating through stillness practice seems to be working on some other principle, but I don't know for certain what that may be. There is also a concept of 'ling qi' which I have heard of which seems to be something along the lines of either universe qi or possibly spiritual qi, but I have only heard this word spoken, so I don't know which specific Chinese character corresponds to this 'ling'. Someone here may know however.

This is my view based on my own experience and interactions with various teachers over the years. I would have to say that much of the information that has been posted in this thread is either very misleading, or outright false, and some info is well in the completely absurd area, as far as I am concerned anyway. However, I have been around long enough to know that no matter how a person might try to clear up such misconceptions, that it will likely do no good anyway. For the most part, people believe what they want to believe, and anything else will likely be ignored or misconstrued. I will say the following however, that typically in Taoism jing is divided into pre-natal and post-natal, and it seems many people are not aware of such a distinction, or are confusing this matter. Jing also has nothing to do with an 'expanding force'. The internal 'forces' developed through internal martials arts is transliterated as jin. As I understand it, herbs will do nothing to replenish pre-natal jing, also again, according to a Taoist point of view, when pre-natal jing is exhausted you will die. I can't comment in regards to women, but for men, having sex (whether practicing 'retention' or not) the pre-natal jing is still depleted. I have seen people insisting that their sexual retention practices are not depleting their 'jing', but it appears that it actually is depleting pre-natal jing. Sexual retention practices may reduce loss of qi and post-natal jing to some extent, but not pre-natal jing. This is why serious Taoist and Buddhist practitioners either have sex very sparingly, or they are completely celibate. It all depends on your goals however... In regards to one or more Taoist internal alchemy branches practicing 'dual cultivation' with women, from what I have had explained to me about this sort of practice is that it was actually a very rare practice and nothing at all like what many people have described or think. Certainly, it does not involve sexual retention, or 'breast feeding', or any of that sort of thing. Therefore the sort of stuff Mantak Chia and others teach is not this sort of practice at all, but rather is just a 'health' practice, and people should take note that a fair number of people have caused themselves issues when practicing those sort of 'retention' health practices. From what I understand then, the sort of thing Mantak Chia was teaching is not authentic internal alchemy practice at all, as was explained to me anyway. Authentic internal alchemy practice involves complete celibacy, and is quite a different sort of practice than some of the stuff that is being passed off as internal alchemy by some unscrupulous or misinformed people. If someone is talking about mixing both sex and internal alchemy practices, my advice would be to run away screaming with your hands pressed firmly over your ears. Keep running until you are very far away. Regarding the book "Taoist Yoga" and Lu Kuan Yu (AKA Charles Luk), Lu Kuan Yu did not write that book. Lu Kuan Yu translated a book written by a Chinese internal alchemy practitioner named Zhao Bichen, and Lu Kuan Yu added some of his own explanatory notes to his translation. The form of internal alchemy practice described in that book requires celibacy (during the period that one is doing those practices), and has nothing whatsoever to do with 'sexual retention practices'. You also can't learn internal alchemy from a book. My understanding is that book was meant as an overview of the practices as Zhao Bichen learned and practiced them. Serious internal alchemy practitioners will have actually been rare, and lived a completely celibate lifestyle, and such people were often recluses. Since most ordinary people are not inclined to want to be completely celibate, or to live as a recluse for much of their life, the best way for the ordinary male to maintain better health is to go very easy on sex, and to reduce the amount of sex from there as you grow older. Living as celibate monks and recluses throughout life is for a very rare few. Well, that's all I have to say on the matter. People will believe what they want to believe regardless what anyone else might say anyway. It is the way of this world.

Ok, but I have also never heard of religious taoists or alchemic taoists, although religious practices and internal alchemy practices are practices which are part of taoism as a whole. Who really knows what all the views and actual practices were of the people who wrote or contributed to texts like the dao de jing or zhuang zi? I can write a short text which contains some stories and ideas I might currently be pondering in my spare time, but if others were to read that text many centuries later and infer that the short text indicates all of my views and practices they would be greatly mistaken. Many practices in taoism were by tradition not ever written down or told to outsiders, so a lot of taoist practices and the roots of taoist practices may never have been written down. Taoism, as it has survived and is known today anyway, is primarily about practices, with few if any actual practicing taoists just sitting around philosophizing, although books like the dao de jing and zhuang zi are considered important in taoism. Some taoists at least seem to interpret these texts as containing guidelines for practice which are written in such a way that the deeper meaning is not readily apparent. I don't know for certain one way or the other however in regards to such texts, but just mentioning this point of view for the sake of interest.

I have not ever heard of Philosophical Taoism, nor have I ever encountered a taoist who has mentioned something called Philosophical Taoism. Philosophical Taoists must either keep a very low profile, or perhaps they have the power of invisibility... In my own limited experience, taoism includes any of philosophy, rituals, spiritual practices and beliefs, divination, cultivation practices, community service, etc. in varying degrees depending on the exact tradition, and depending on the exact practitioner or follower.

You, sir, must be very wise.

I would say it is mainly about fantasy. Someone asks a somewhat serious seeming question or requests input on a certain topic. Even if they get one or two somewhat reasonable appearing responses, much of the thread may well be filled with fantasy and imagination and role playing, or very questionable or obviously harmful advice. Then, more often than not it would seem, the person posing a question or requesting feedback on a topic will focus in on the more fantasy oriented responses, or focus in on the responses which contain about the worst and most whacky or harmful advice imaginable. and maybe even comment on how wise those responses seem to them. Welcome to fantasy island. Were the Monty Python troupe actually stark realists? Where does imagination end and reality begin?

I didn't say anything about not doing anything or not starting however. There are many 'teachers' out there.

No, it was not known at all until some students of Jenny Lamb posted here some years ago that Jenny Lamb stated that she taught Max practices which he teaches in his 'kunlun' practice. Max never mentioned learning Kunlun stuff from Jenny Lamb in his old book or on his old websites, nor even mentioned her as a teacher back then either that I ever saw. My impression from his old book and old websites a number of years ago was that he was presenting Kunlun as some esoteric system which he learned in the far east from some unmentioned teacher. Now he seems to be presenting Kunlun on his latest website as a system which he synthesized from various practices and teachers. That's the last I will say about it as if someone really wants to know more about this they can research some of the old posts here from years ago about Max and his 'kunlun' system, and how Kunlun was being presented back then...