ricemaster

I'm reading Damo Mitchell's "Daoist Nei Gong". He teaches a practice of rotating the lower Dan Tien, that is using the mind to turn the lower Dan Tien forward (down the front and up the back). I have never come across this practice before. I wonder if you know of any other references to it and the general opinion about such practice. Thank you!

Personally I tend to agree with joeblast here, that the diaphragm in RB moves the same as in NB (down on inhale). In fact, I believe it is impossible to inhale without the diaphragm descending, as it is the contraction (descent/flattening) of the diaphragm which is the first in the chain of events which results in inhalation. However what we really need is references to known teachers/writings about this.

Hi all, As the OP it would be great if you can move different discussions (healing sounds etc) to other threads. Still looking for information about the movement of the diaphragm in reverse/embryonic breathing. Thanks!

Thank dawei, > I will say that I just did a search to see what is being said about reverse breathing and the diaphragm and it seems rather unanimous by practitioners, whether Qi, yoga, etc, that the diaphragm tends to move up in reverse breathing. Is it possible for you to give links to this information ? I am very interested > One guy mentioned that in his iron shirt practice the hardest part in reverse breathing was getting his diaphragm to relax so that it would learn to drop on the inhale. I don't understand why this is hard, as it simply mean keeping it moving they way it does in normal breathing. I've been practicing like that for almost a year. Thanks

Hi dawei I am not sure I understand you. My intention was to discuss reverse breathing but it's important to clear misunderstandings regarding normal breathing. The mechanics of normal breathing are not a matter for speculation/intuition/belief or argument. Please check wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breath) or gray's anatomy or any physiology book. Normal breathing mechanics is as follows: Inhale: 1. The diaphragm contracts = flattens = goes down 2. At the same time the rib cage expands (and to some degree the chest) 3. As a result the thoracic cavity increases in volume 4. The lungs expand into this bigger space 5. As a result the air pressure in the lungs drops below the air pressure outside the body 6. The air pressure difference causes air to flow into the lungs. Exhale: 1. The diaphragm releases = domes up = goes up 2. At the same time the rib cage & chest releases 3. As a result the thoracic cavity decreases in volume 4. The lungs compress 5. Air pressure in the lungs rises 6. Air flows out of the lungs So in normal breathing the diaphragm contracts flattens and descends on the inhale and releases domes up and goes up on the exhale. If you find that yours behave differently (in normal breathing) then either there is a problem with your breathing or you are confused about the location of the diaphragm. I respect the fact that your teacher suggests the diaphragm moves up on the inhale in reverse breathing. That means there are still conflicting views about that. I would love to find a written reference. I searched Dr Yang's 'Embryonic Breathing' in vain. Thanks Ricemaster

Hi dawei, Thanks for writing. Two points: 1. You write "Normal Abdominal Breathing (NAB): - Inhale --> ... - Diaphragm expands --> downward " Just to be precise the downward movement of the diaphragm in Normal breathing is a contraction (flattening) not an expansion. (see the youtube I posted above) 2. Do you know of any confirmation for your opinion from a book/teacher etc ? (especially as my guess is the opposite, see my post before) Thanks

Hi all, hank you for all the answers ! there seems to be no consensus In normal breathing the diaphragm goes down (contracts and flattens) on inhale and goes up (release and domes) on exhale. See If this movement stays the same in revers/embryonic breathing (my guess) then on the inhale we will have the lower dan tien compressed from all directions which makes sense to me as the compression should produce more Chi which is the purpose of reverse/embryonic breathing. It does mean though that the diaphragm movement is not reversed. What I am really looking for is a more authoritative answer on this from a chigong master or somebody who learned from one or from a lineage, either written/book or a testimony to having heard so/taught so. Any help ? Thanks PS thanks for the interesting references to the psoas

My first taobums post I'm practicing Embryonic Breathing according to the instructions given in Yang Jwing-Ming's "Qigong Meditation: Embryonic Breathing". I am confused about the movement of the diaphragm in reverse breathing/embryonic breathing. When breathing in, as the lower belly and lower back move towards each other and the the perineum goes up, should the diaphragm go up, down, or not move at all ? When breathing out, as the lower belly and lower back release (move away from each other) and the perineum releases down, should the diaphragm go up, down, or not move at all ? Any info is very welcomed (ideally with references to the source) Thanks ! Ricemaster

Great to join this forum, I know I'll learn a lot and hope to contribute some ... Hmmm what can I tell about myself that's relevant ? Me mid thirties guy, married, born and living outside the US, Alexander Technique teacher, intensive involvement with Goenka vipassana, also lots of experience with psychedelics/entheogens in my past, practiced a bit of tai-chi and mantak chia stuff a few years ago, but recently getting on Chinese herbs sparked my interest in Chinese spirituality again and started doing Chunyi Lin small universe meditation and now joining the forum to learn more Thanks and take care With Joy Ricemaster