VCraigP

Tulku = Wall Other Tao Bums = Banging head against wall

Have you ever attempted to achieve lucidity in your dreams? Recently I am working with a Tibetan Lama and this topic is very important in his tradition. I wonder how this interaction could have unfolded if you were fully awake in your dream. It is something I hope to be able to explore some day. Thanks again for sharing this dream vision. Craig

Encephalon and 5ET Thanks. every once in awhile I cut and paste things from this forum as having value in my collection of "wise words". Thanks for the critical thinking material, they have become part of my collection of important thoughts. Craig

If someone says things that really upset you perhaps this is an excellent opportunity to examine why? This is my take away from this VERY charged thread. 5ET - The clarity of your examinations and demonstration of critical thinking are very much appreciated. In my view there is no greater skill than to remain stable and think for yourself critically in all situations without being swayed by your attachments. Craig

My favorite quote in this thread for awhile. At least it somehow relates back to the topic. OK, at the risk of joining in the obviously successful bid by the agents of disinformation to derail my inquiry I will respond again about VMarco. I dont care a whit about the content of ANY of his posts. It doesn't matter. I care about this; Did his "insult" rise to the level of a short suspension or did it not. That is all that should be weighed by Mods to consider his suspension. The rest is just personal preference and WAY to Subjective. I DO NOT at all believe it rose to that level. It appears the mods have included his general annoyance to TTB populace in consideration of applying the short suspension. As Judge, Jury and Executioner I wish the mods would have been clearer about why the temporary suspension. As a very short time former mod myself I expect the discussion about his suspension among mods did include consideration of his overall annoyance factor. IMO that should barely hold any weight at all except the aspect of entirely derailing threads. Therefore my distress at his suspension was that I felt it was a misapplication of the rule about insults, or at least too quick a pull on that trigger in comparison to precedent. However, if there were previous insults which were similar or greater than the one which tripped the trigger AND there were warnings, then I entirely agree with the time out. In summary, if you dont like him and/or his attitude, what he writes, etc, this is not and never should be any basis for any disciplinary action. TTFN

Ummm....is there more I missed here? suspended for a week for posting too much and being annoying? Tell me this isn't all there is! Craig

Equanimity to all silly bickering fools and their agents of folly. I'm going back to work Craig PS - Metta PPS - What would Devo do?

VMarco, Sunya Your bickering says a lot more than your words. Get a ring and work it out. Lovingly - Craig In other words, go somewhere else to fight. Your unseemly behavior is not wanted here (meaning on this thread - you are of course welcome to continue distracting yourselves elsewhere).

I have found the enemy. It's Me.

Leon how about some feedback, review, of the material you are exploring? thanks Craig

I highly suggest looking up his interview on blogtalk radio "the secrets of qigong masters" by Lama Tantrapa. Using the search function on blogtalk radio and looking up by Lama Tantrapa and/or the secrets of qigong masters will find it for you. Alternatively you could find it the same way as a podcast on Itunes. I was only vaguely familiar with his work, but his interview impressed me so much. His depth and breadth of knowledge was well revealed. IME this type of interview which Lama Tantrapa is doing is a great way to get a feel for someone and see if you find resonance even before deciding to study with them. Since you already study his material I think you will get even more value out of it. Cheers Craig

Now Now. I think an earlier poster well established the definition I was seeking. Disinformation IS intentional. Writing something in a way you disagree with, or twisting your words, that's just annoying, to you. That is my Honest Belief on the matter. Can you tell how seriously I am taking this?

You are close to the truth. Actually 98% of all qigong is a method to open you up for demonic possession. The great deceiver will also provide you with strength, health and vitality too. Beware, the result is that you will transcend social programming and begin to see things as they truly are. As we all know, God certainly doesn't want that.

I admit it. I am a troll. I try to elicit a response and there it is. It has been fascinating to me to see who responded to this and how they responded, or Reacted. Thank you for those who kept on topic. For those who don't stay on topic, thank you for showing your inability to maintain that kind of discipline. For those who thought I might have been referring to you by my post, I wasn't, but maybe you should think about why you thought it. For those of you who actually decided TTB's needed defending within the context of my post, that was also interesting.

Agree with you on the value of FPCK. Agree with you on the Paranoia. Disagree with the overarching dismissal of any "conspiracy" in the world(which is in itself an overarching generalization in and of itself.) The PTB are not powerless, by definition. PS - if FPCK is the ONLY thing you found of value then you must be even more bored with TTB than I.

Dont like cigars. How about a kewpie doll? Always looking within. The well is very deep.

Scotty I am not interested in providing examples. I made an observation perhaps to encourage others to consider the idea. I dont know if there are "people" who may think one way or another I am just one person wondering out loud. Speaking of governments, speaking about the type you can know and see is also not useful in this discussion. It is my supposition that there are forces which profit by helping to keep the general populace asleep. Just as I strongly believe there are those who profit from keeping our (American) education system from being fully functional and would even prefer less opportunity for education and critical thinking. Therefore to address any motives which might exist in my hypothetical scenario I would posit that the rapid dissemination of effective mind/body/spirit training resulting in greater awakening not to mention health, well-being and critical thinking while being unarguably a good thing may be against certain agendas. But it's OK. I am just dreaming this up to entertain myself. Part of my ongoing thought game about a fantasy/thriller/spiritual/mystery work of fiction. But it's all a dream anyway so...

I am extremely fixed and extremely critical then? Normal everyday people? on the tao bums? Gee I would hope not, unless exploring mystery has become mainstream. Outside of any judgement of my fixations or criticisms it is understood by me that there are fields of information and social interaction which are infiltrated by agents intending to mislead or obscure any revelation of truth which might tend to influence people against their agenda. So if you accept this premise which seems well documented (COINTELPRO...to name the most obvious) then it seems possible that someone might come here to confuse and obscure truth seeking behavior. Nothing to prove. Just something I'm pondering. Not going to name names, but Forums are interesting places and different people are coming from different places with different ideas and goals. This much is certainly true.

Vaj How about translating the yogic terms into english for the ignorant. Otherwise I have to spend all day on wikipedia to understand what you are saying. Maybe it would be a useful exercise for you too? with respect Craig

Maybe the OPs question can be refined. Can you receive benefit from being Connected to a lineage. (notice I did not say attached). Will it be better to make such a connection while at the same time not becoming Attached to or identified with it? (my answer - Yes). PS - Most of the rest of you need to consider your attachment to derailing other peoples posts :-) Craig

Riga Balsams. You are quite the gourmet. I am fortunate to have married a Latvian and so was introduced to this strange brew years ago. Way back in the 80's we only got it through relatives bringing it back directly from Riga. Nowadays there are a few places that carry it in the states. I think there is a store in the Russian neighborhood of San Francisco that carries it. Must be somewhere to find it in the greater L.A. area? Tell me what you know about Riga Balsams. What I know is that it is an ancient brew of many herbs, commonly referred to as "bitters". Riga Balsams is almost black and seemingly much less refined than the more common "swedish bitters" which can be found at many health food stores. It is very unique. Apparently good for digestion. My immediate liking for it astounded my Latvian relatives as it is not something most Americans would favor. TM you surprise me in your arcane knowledge again. Craig

Hi thanks for your reply. Let me try again. This is not "my" forum. I don't know what link may have been blocked. If you have questions about the forum you should contact the moderators. Start with Mal for technical questions. I am not even very good at doing searches on this forum. You must understand that there has been over the years a great deal of attack directed against M.Chia on this forum, so much so that a post like yours seemed to be more of the same. I don't find that approach useful. Further I don't find much merit in discussing the man's personal life. I don't know why he got divorced. I highly doubt you will find a true account of that on the internet. Also, you do seem to neglect the role of the wife in the relationship. As I pointed out, there are two people to consider. Here is what I will say. I highly suggest you study his foundation material. Put away "Cultivating Male Sexual energy" until you have mastered the inner smile, six healing sounds and Microcosmic orbit. Also then get some basic understanding of Fusion meditation to further balance the emotional energies. All of this assuming you really want to explore the healing tao material. If possible, seek out an instructor. Also I suggest going to ; alchemicaltaoism.com to peruse the many insights there regarding M.Chia's materials and certain warnings and pitfalls others have experienced. It has been widely accepted in this community that sexual practice as a starting point is a really bad idea. There is much foundational work to be done before contemplating working in that area. This is assuming you have no other energy work, mind-body practice experience. In summary, I cannot answer your initial question. I still think you line of inquiry is flawed. You speak of "original manuscripts" and "sticking to the classics" but Cultivating male sexual energy is not about philosophy, nor is much of Chia's materials. He presents techniques and practices to cultivate jing, qi and shen. Whether or not these techniques or practices will provide benefit is up to the individual to discover. If you have such doubt I do not think you will get any benefit. Further you said "I know a master who wishes to remain anonymous and they have transcended these issues a long time ago - this being the characteristic that separates a Sage from the rest of us. Furthermore this master has told me to quit being irresponsible do my research, if seemingly appropriate at this point put into action the practice to see what benefit there is in my own experience. What more is there to say." If you know such a one, why not study with him and have done with it? Why not follow his advice? Do the practice to see what benefit there is for yourself. Do your research. You would find better fruit in your research to discover the benefits or detriments of the practice as it stands rather than try to discover how M.Chia's life is working, or not. IN the end I think to discover the Tao of Relationship with another human being is more important that cultivating male sexual energy. Perhaps this is your conclusion as well since you have placed such great weight on the failure of M.Chia's marriage.

IN the old days when I was heavily involved in Taekwondo there was a system for Junior black belts wherein you could receive a black belt while being younger than 15, but that was merely a "poom" belt and had no standing with the World Taekwondo federation. One was required to retake the rank test when one reached 15 or 16. Further it was generally taught by quality instructors that black belt merely indicated a certain degree of mastery of the basics of the art which enabled one to be a "true student". Therefore the road to black belt was merely the achievement of the ability to learn. Perhaps equivalent to Junior high school. Good foundation but not high school, not college, not an advanced degree. As pointed to in my earlier brief response in this thread quality training has been sacrificed on the altar of economics. Teachers and students are progressively watered down through the years. Profit making and production of quality students are, as earlier mentioned here, generally mutually exclusive. It calls for a tremendous amount of commitment and work to achieve any degree of mastery of a martial art. High level mastery calls for exponentially greater commitment and work. Transmitting that knowledge and skill requires a commensurate level of commitment, time and energy on the part of a Quality instructor. The resources required to do all of this are beyond that of almost anyone because of the economic realities of earning a living. I am sure there are exceptions to this, and varying degrees of accomplishment of true training, but as admitted in this discussion, they are rare. Awarding Black Belts to kids is another example of this whole misguided self esteem boosting trend of giving kids things to make them feel good about themselves without really earning it, so everyone feels like a winner. Makes me gag... PS - nowadays I don't think any art with belts is worth much. I have TKD 4th Dan. PPS - The difficult thing for most people approaching MA for this first time is that they don't have ANY context to make a quality judgement about what they are getting into. Hence the "success" of the McMartial arts franchises out there. Craig

Hi Chris. How are you? What are your interests? How old are you? Have you done any mind/body practice? This topic has been discussed in detail here at TTB a long time ago. Here is a question for you. Is every teacher of qigong a complete and whole being without any human flaws? In my experience all human beings are not perfected. That has something to do with the reason we are here on Earth I think. I am dodging nothing. I freely admit and would freely discuss that I studied with M.Chia beginning in the early 1980's. Further I have for MANY years contemplated and discussed the strengths and weaknesses of what I learned then, what it may or may not have done for me and others, and so on. By starting your presence here on TTB's with this type of question I can only assume you are Trolling for some satisfaction to create a heated flame-war defending M.Chia and his system. I will not do that, I have no interest in it. I value many things I learned from M.Chia and I also value his role as one who expanded the dissemination of qigong in the West. He is not an immortal flawless being. He is not a perfectly balance sage. Are you? Have you ever been in a relationship? By the way, you may also take note that there are always two people in a relationship (at least, in this case there is the son as well). Finally, I think it is a weak argument to say that his whole system is flawed and use as proof the fact of his divorce. All this was taken into consideration in my response to you, especially the fact that I consider your opening to be entirely trollish. I would be fascinated to receive an intelligent reply to this. Respectfully. Craig

Answer: Mantak Chia is a human being. What else do you want to know? PS - His ex wife is a human being as well. Clear enough? Peace Out.