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Re M.Chia's rocking technique. I use this sometimes in sitting. Subtle rocking motion arising from the base of the spine and/or points of the hip bones. Really small movement which is almost like a vibration. Do front to back or side to side. Start with larger vibration and let it settle our through the structure, travelling up the spine becoming dispersed over the spine and moving up and out. I find I can even subtly do both side to side and front to back rocking simultaneously and create a tight spiral which travels up. Any of these can be moved internally as to be not even visible externally, but still there. Sometimes slight front to back rocking initiated consciously becomes very subtle wave which stays and moves through as if something solid were travelling through the orbit and the gravity of it is causing small motion in the body. Perhaps this is Actually what IS happening. Easy technique to help relax when you get tight in sitting a long time. Of course, on the other hand, some camps of meditation say this is all training wheels type stuff and that once you really have it you won't be aware of the gross physical body at all. As for me...useful. Craig

Hey, do you know where we are now? " The daughter replied "No daddy". He continued, "Now we are out in Nature". The daughter shook her little head and said "No daddy! We are not in Nature, We are here! " I love it. Child Zen. I am inspired by the "no TV" comment as well. Despite my various ideals I am afraid there is far too much TV in my household. We are weaning ourselves of it, but would have been far better off to have come from a starting point with the kids of NO TV. We've been fairly successfull with limiting junk food to almost never including no sodapop and very infrequent candies. As my wife likes to say, "if we weren't together you would be off in a cave somewhere." It is much easier to make a Monk's choices when you are single. Dietary choices, entertainment choices. But if you turn the TV off you will find that all that the children really want is to be with you and do...whatever, anything. Cherish that. One thing I hope never happens is that they grow up to not want anything to do with Mom and Dad. Right now with kids at 4 and 6 1/2 it seems impossible. But everyone says they will grow up to be surely, ungrateful teenagers. Like a lot of Cliche's in society about what to expect I hope to have a different path with my children. Oh, one interesting piece of advice Hagar. When my wife was pregnant with our son I read the ENTIRE Lord of the Rings Trilogy out loud to her, and to my son in Utero. It is said that they can hear you in the womb to some extent. Of course they hear their mother's voice, but I think this practice lead to him becoming familiar with my voice before being born as well. Did the same thing with my daughter (different literature). It was a nice thing to do, and my wife enjoyed it as well. And definitely better than watching TV. Good luck to you on this incredible journey you are embarking upon. Oh, another piece. ONe realization which becoming a father brought to me was an entirely different level of emotional life. I thought I had made some progress in opening my heart. I feel now as a father as if my life before fatherhood was led by an entirely different me who just didn't quite "get it" emotionally. It was an awakening on the emotional level which is very deep, and mostly unexpected. Good Chi Craig

Number two is due on St. Paddy's Day. I plan on sneaking some Guninness into the delivery room for a proper blessing. Guinness eh. Did you know that the polyphenols in guiness are stimulating towards lactation. Sharethe brew with the new mom! Though you might have to chase the nurse away first. Cheers. Craig

Hi all. I, like Rex, have a view of the HT system which does not see the problem with Jing retention as systemic but more as individual in origin. To be fair I think it should be well acknowledged that offering sexual practices such as found in "Taoist Secrets of Love" and "Cultivating Female Sexual Energy" could be viewed as throwing fuel on the fire of overly revved Western sexual culture. In this regard I think these HT publications and the much more recent "multi orgasmic man" and "multi orgasmic couple" do have inherent flaws of Emphasis. The ideal is to receive information/teaching orally and to support that instruction with books and/or other media. The real world is that many people came to HT practice directly through interest in one of these sex manuals. The ideal of learning/studying/exploring/healing the emotional body FIRST, before sexual practice is undertaken is not an experience I hear many people relating. Truly it is not my experience either. M.Winn's emphasis on gentleness and caution in both the Iron Shirt and Healing Love practice is in my view a CRUCIAL distinction from M.Chia's more forceful/yang approach to these subjects. One of my more recent posts went into some detail about Fusion practice, and I return to that here. The HT system provides a model of emotional exploration which is coherent with Oriental Medicine and all the foundation practices of the HT (inner smile, healing sounds, M.O. orbit.) Along with this emotional exploration is the energetic exploration of the channels. With regards to Jing retention and sexual practice the missing link is the prior opening up of larger channels involved in Fusion, and the familiarity with emotional energy which this practice aims at achieving. Having these channels open (especially central channels and belt routes) allows for better energetic communication with another and more clear exchange. With regards to being sexually revved, the tools are there to deal with this as well. Not only having more channels through which to move the energy, but having the tools to balance this higher load is very important. The channels are like the wiring, and to continue the analogy, the fusion blending practice becomes somewhat like a circuit breaker. When there is an overload it is time to look to how the system is balancing itself and what can be done to regain that balance. Once again, the above is somewhat dry and theoretical, and the real world is not so simple. these tools are important requisites to the care and feeding of your Jing Gong. I would like to propose "Essence Craft" as my transliteration. To continue there are two areas I would like to emphasize in utilizing the Fusion/Shen theory into Essence Craft issues. One is having a system which can properly handle the higher level of energy going through it. This is accomplished by opening up all the channels (8 xtra vessels - starting with the M.O.) The next is playing with the shen/organ energies to balance out what may be excess Jing energy. It seems to me that this discussion is primarily concerned with how to harness this energy without it becoming a problem. This sexually revved energy is IMO a manifestation of the Kidney essence/Shen taking control and saying, yeeha I gots a lot of juice, lets get to it, f... f... f..., all day long. Meanwhile the other Shen are not so much in the forefront and are perhaps overwhelmed by this situation. One of the problems of understanding the energy I have had is that aroused sexual energy is so yang/firey/hot that it seemed more appropriate to associate it with heart/summer/yang fire correspondences. In actuality it has to do with the yang aspect of the Kidney/procreative urge. Collecting All of the Kidney energy and blending with more heart energy in the center actually helps to ground this further. This is a good example of the function of the tool kit which is Fusion. And as has been discussed, though long ago, on the HT board the more complete solution is to begin and continue with the KanLi sexual self intercourse method. If you really begin to get this going on, things can really shift in the retention process through the resolution of this extra energy within this Kan and Li process. Some students have even reported they feel a diminishment of desire as a result of this. To paraphrase M.Winn "of course if you are having self intercourse all the time you naturally will have less desire" This could be problematic in a relationship. Again I must say that Your Results May Vary. All of this theory is just that if you are just working on the basics. My main point I think is that some very important intermediate steps have been overlooked in the HT curriculum. M.Winn has made IMPORTANT refinements in the teaching of the fusion, both in the inclusion of moving chikung forms to work with the meditations and in the simplification or really return to the core simplicity of the Shen theory and how to apply it to your life and energy work. I do not blame people who balk at the approach M.Chia takes in teaching fusion. I find it too mental and confusing as well. I have heard M.Winn take major issue with M.Chia's particular approach to it also. I have a particular interest in this dynamic because after years of foundation work I became stuck at the point of mastering the fusion process because of M.Chia's inability to transmit it in a simple way. There is a dichotomy in my experience as well because some of my earliest peak chikung/meditation experience came with working in a small group with Chia and learning the first parts of Fusion. I GOT it. It was definitely a transmission experience. This experience was later diffused in part by the overly mental manipulation of the advance fusion practices. After being sidetracked for a number of years I finally got moving again through M.Winn's much more approachable Fusion and Kan and Li instructions. I have not seen much interest in discussion of Fusion/Shen work here, or on HT forum, but I think there is much to be gained from this piece of the work, especially when trying to understand how to deal with "Essence Craft" and retention. OK - I think that's enough for today. Craig

Wow Yoda. I like Plato's take that you have reached a certain level of madness nearing his!! High praise, in a sideways kind of way. My take on this. First a caveat: I have not read at all deeply into this info as you and Sean and others seem to. I did a little exploring of putting my tongue Waaaay back and I must say it was interesting. Definitely seemed to have a stimulating effect into the brain and connecting to the central channel. If I were to explore this further I think I would start by working on stretching my tongue and relaxing into the mudra of tucking the tongue back. I wouldn't jump into cutting myself. Taoist and Hindu views on spiritual cultivation vis a vis the body are quite different IMO. I will parrot M.Winn wherein he describes Hindu/Buddhist culture as embracing techniques which mortify the body in order to transcend this plane. Whereas the Tao idea is to come into resonance with the universe/tao through embodyment. If I were interested in exploring this technique from this perspective I would explore as I mentioned above and accompany the PHYSICAL aspect of the Mudra with a FOCUSED awareness of the Nonphysical connection moving from the tongue up the center of the brain. In the end the ENERGETIC connection is what is crucial. Maybe it is possible to reach the same goal with less physical and more Chi body work along the same lines?? Again, my comment would be to ask yourself "is this approach overly focused on the physical?" My input. But hey, I don't have any piercings or tattoos either, so I am just the conservative voice here. You go ahead and cut up whatever body parts you feel drawn to do Craig

On Inner Smile. Notice - Inner smile. This is not the social outward smile. Just as in healing sounds, the sound is inward - Sublingual. In a way the inner smile is also not an outward expression. More of a feeling tone. it is NOT excess Joy. In fact this goes back to a split in philosophy between camps in taoism. One camp says "do not manipulate chi" Another says "Consciously working with your energy has it's place" This is the camp which HT practice (among many others) falls into. ... you seem to fall into the latter which equates inner smile with the tendency to bring forward heart energy emotion in an excessive way. Who was it who said "the technique of no technique is still a technique." It is too easy to say that one can just fall into a state of grace because you are open to it. Is it possible to become a master of anything without learning and applying principles and techniques? Inner smile is a simple technique which serves several purposes. IN my view the primary one is to start the process of going inside, which is important for modern people who tend to be mostly externally oriented and disconnected from their body. The inner smile process is a way of exploring yourself physically. It is a way of connecting with external chi, according to my interpretation of Chia's approach it brings in Cosmic chi energy which is one of the 3 external forces, Earth Chi, Cosmic Chi (or human plane chi) and Heavenly Chi. So you are connecting to external "cosmic chi" and you are bringing your consciousness into your body. Also you are doing a practice which is almost the same as Progressive relaxation by bringing the golden light chi into the body step by step system by system, organ by organ. It is a deep exploration into body consciousness and relaxation. You are also WIRING the body/mind to accomplish a deep state of relaxation and openess which is necessary to do other work, Neidangung or Chigung. Many masters speak of entering into the ChiKung state before starting your practice. The inner smile process enables you to practice entering into this deep state, step by step and to wire it so that you can move more quickly to that state with practice to where it becomes almost immediate. It is a Technique. So if you are opposed to any such there would be no traction to get you to go along with my statements. But as a technique, and viewed in a way to understand what the goals of the technique are, it is in my opinion a very good technique. Finally to reiterate, it is not done externally, it is done softly and lightly with the slightest lifting of the corners of the eyes and the mouth. If it is forced and external then it is LIKELY that it will feel like excess, excess Joy, overheating the heart, etc. Smiles to you. Craig

Perhaps taking the view of the 5 Phases of chi is a better perspective. M.Winn emphasizes this view and it is a traditional view, not his alone. What really helped me was view the 5 phases in the following way. Heart = Radiant energy moving out in all directions. Lung = Descending energy moving down into more dense physical. Kidney = Magnetic energy, condensing into most dense physical, most internal. Liver = Rising energy, moving out into the world, ambition, new growth. Spleen = Centered energy holding the middle of the 5 phases of movement. I actually put this together while looking at and thinking about the simple arrows and lines which accompany the 5 elements circles on M.Winns Fusion TShirt Diagram. 5 Phases is more the intention of the concept than to see them as things. Another way to think of the 5 elements is as one big circle of energy, a continuum and not one discreet element sitting off to the side. The aspects of the 5 elements are NOT restricted at all to Healing Tao method. Traditional Chinese Medicine theory recognizes and utilizes 5 phase theory. While modern chinese medicine does deemphasize Shen theory, and 5 element theory is secondary, the concepts of the 5 phases as it relates to how the organ systems work is still there. To me the concept of Fusion is not complex. It is a way to integrate various impulses, aspects and fuse them together to achieve a balance. Feel or perceive the 5 phases in whatever way you can get a handle on them and merge them in your center, whether that be a more mental space or a more physical space to you the sense of balance and harmony, and quiet-peace which you can achieve with this technique is REAL, to me. This is my experience. Taming these currents and working with them to come to a harmonized center IS a prerequisite for Alchemy practice. That is not to say that this is the only way to achieve a balanced and peaceful harmonized center, but it is the one which makes sense to me. Fusion is not unique to HT. In fact I learned a Fusion practice in simpler form from the Abbot on Huashan. This was a nice verification that this was not a Chia/Winn creation. Yes they did refine it, as they refined the practice of the healing sounds, incorporating more sensory aspects in order to collect as much disparate energys as possible. In my opinion FUSION is often misunderstood and not adequately explored before moving to the "more interesting" practices such as sexual practice or Iron shirt. Is it possible to begin Micro orbit practice without Inner smile, perhaps, but unless you are naturally in that place, I wouldn't advise it. just so doing Iron shirt or Healing Love without understanding or embodying inner smile relaxation is problematic at best, learning to do Fusion is a deeper level of integration which addresses many things first which would become deep problems when the energy of iron shirt and/or healing love practice is added. The prerequisite of Fusion is overlooked at your risk, and I think a lot of the problems people have complained about the system and the problems it has caused them. I think a deeper exploration of the fusion process FIRST could address many if not all of these issues. Perhaps a radical view, at least not one I have seen represented in a while. But this is M.Winns position and I share it. It must be said at this point that M.Chia's approach to Fusion makes things F...ing CONfusing and I believe Michaels approach is much more accessible. In fact his approach brought me out of a very stuck place with regards to this practice. Good Luck to all. Craig

Craig, what does the tribulus stuff do? Is it to increase jing, energy, an adaptogen? Is it chinese? I've never heard of it. Tribulus was originally from Bulgaria and a secret weapon of their strength training/powerlifting people. Works on hormonal axis. Supplies raw material for testosterone production. Helps promote more Leutinizing hormone which is a precursor buliding block of testosterone. I used to use it before doing hard tournament style Taekwondo training and it promoted that kind of aggressive energy very well. Sometimes too well! THe best extract is German or Bulgarian. I think you can still find Tribestan on the web, which is a brand from Bulgaria (Sopharma). This is good stuff. I will not attempt to characterize it's Chinese energetic properties, not my speciality. Also what do you think of Plato's jing trilogy: He shou wu, Huang Jing and wolfberries? I like wolfberries and definitely like He shou wu, although I am not sure it is as almighty as Plato makes it out to be. Huang Jing is outside my personal experience. Go to a chinese pharmacist and buy some in bulk, should be pretty affordable in traditional form. Nothing like going for it yourself to get your own proof instead of bandying about on different folks opinions. Which is why I stick to what I have experienced. He's also big on Rou Chong Rong "for extra sexual effects"? Dont know this one either. Thanks 8213[/snapback]

Sean Kudos from one deep in the industry. That royal jelly product is the BEST out there. Fresh and yummy. Almost too powerful from my recollection. Haven't had any since I've left California. Maybe I 'll try to hunt it down around here. You can probably buy it at your local health food store in Berkeley or thereabouts. It's probably not available mail order though is it? I recommend regular use of Tribulus terrestris. Hard to recommend a brand, but Dragonherbs sells a Tribulus powder which is OK if you take alot of it. I like good quality extract standardized to Protodioscin content, but that is something I can only get through my connections in the industry, I don't even know a finished product which I would trust. But if you are willing to throw a little bit of money around Tribulus is really good. You Tao Boys should be able to notice the difference when you take it. I sure can. Another one I used to be skeptical about was MACA. If you get good quality maca which should have a rich nutty smell and take a gram or more at a time it has a nice boosting effect also. This is good for women's hormonal health as well...allegedly, cannot say from experience, being a guy. bye Craig

Sean Marvelous place this Tao Bums, really enjoy hanging out here, altogether too frequently. My Name is Craig Payton I am a Certified Healing Tao instructor since 1993. Never actively sought out to teach seminars, etc. I am employed in other activities to make money, acting as a broker selling Nutritional ingredients in bulk. I Live @ 25 miles west of Portland in a little Town called Forest Grove. I wish I were actually living in a grove, in a forest, but for purposes of truth in advertising I will state for the record that we only have actual forest some miles from here and just normal small town foliage. Born and raised in the Bay Area - Redwood City, San Carlos, Belmont, Burlingame (that's for Sean and other Bay area people who would know where these places are). I have studied martial arts since pre teen age, and seriously from 1980... Most interested in Taoism for a long time. As a young person, 8-10 yr old, I began studying metaphysical, mystical subjects. Experimented with meditation from very early on. Upon discovering Taoist practice, primarily through Mantak Chia initially I kinda dropped all other interest in new age, metaphysics an so on for a long time. The result of seeking and finally finding some satisfactory answers which allowed me to focus on Taoist alchemy, meditation and chi kung without much appetite for anything else. So I have Studied and taken seminars with M.Chia since 1986 (approximatley, ok, so it was a long time ago.) By the late 1990's I had got kinda stuck with my practice and somewhat detached from M.Chia (that's what happens to your USA students when you move to Thailand). But through taking some retreats with M.Winn and studying with a really intense internal martial arts instructor in Pacifica (again for Sean) I would say I reawakened my love and desire to pursue the Tao arts further. So, I am pretty pure HT trained, though my structure training came about more through Bagua, Hsing I and eclectic martial arts training (preceeded by at least 15 years of intense TaeKwonDo training.) I learned the HT iron shirt structure principals, but it wasn't until I started working with a learned internal MA practitioner that my structure reached a real functional level. Lately, though I am not entirely in accord with the Buddhist/Bodri emphasis on stillness and emptiness, I have been just doing sitting and opening my tantien through counterforce breathing (chi kung fundamentals, M.Winn) and letting whatever happens happen. Sometimes doing Fusion, sometimes going into Kan/Li. Working, raising two children (Boy 6 1/2, Girl 4), cocreating a healthy marriage with my wife who I've been together with for 17 years, maintaining my household are all things which take up quite a bit more time than my cultivation can at present. Lately I am getting better at sleeping less, though with Fall season I am working more. Too much for an introduction? Are you falling asleep yet? Good Chi to all. Craig

Sean Thanks for the kind words. This site is a great service to us all. About this instructor in Pacifica, write me at ; [email protected] and I will give you some more info about him. Very private person who was teaching me in his garage. I am not sure if he is actively teaching right now. send me an email and we can communicate more directly about this. Craig

I don't know about anyone else, but the basic premise of this book totally creeps me out. Doesn't this seem like the most obscene extension of scientific thinking and mechanistic worldview? Gee Daddy, when I grow up I want to be a robot! When they make your robot body and transfer your brain data, do you think your shen are going to go for that ride? Ridiculous. Don't worry, be happy, technology will solve everything. Crazy scientists! Craig

In reading the instructions he says "focus on the beam of energy entering the crown of the head at a point about two inches above the hairline, called the 'Medicine Palace'." Two inches above the hairline, unless I have an especially low hairline I think this measurement is inaccurate. My understanding and experience of the central channel puts the crown center point more, well, in the center. This point he describes seems more angled to the front. What is you experience of this meditation in regard to this point? My point location training says to go from the middle of the top of the ears and draw a line straight up as the simplest way to find the crown point. Do you think he is intentionally locating a different point for thepurpose of this meditation? Otherwise, thanks for the input. Don't mean to nitpick, but if I were just starting out I wouldn't want to start doing something like this without first knowing where to properly focus. Craig

The sounds were done internally, emanating from the organ, so not so much breath is needed, I guess, as when doing them making a large sound with the vocal cords. Chris Chris I am confused when you mention "as when doing them making a large sound with the vocal chords. THe sounds should always be performed subvocally. THis means they should emanate from internal space and not involve real vocal chord activation at all. I have noticed that the type of breath involved, on the physical level, changes from big and deep to more subtle breathing as you progress in a practice session. Sometimes it goes back and forth. Sometimes you get tremendous movement out of a very subtle breath. I think that moving towards smoothness in doing the sounds is important. I think that perhaps you intuition of a sense of too much forcing or willful intervention upon a natural process was a valid sense. Eventually it is important to work towards a more natural state. Lung Shen doesn't like having the mind force it to work in an unnatural way. That is why all breathing practice should be a road towards freeing up space to a more natural way of breathing without having to consciously manipulate. This is also the goal of healing sounds. To clear some of the furniture stowed in the basement in order to have more room to move around, to use an analogy of M.Winn. Eventually healing sounds and inner smile should clear up enough stuff to allow a sense of peace and stillness. This is an important piece of the practice which I think may be overlooked by those who emphasize "Stillness practice". The emotions and physical body holding patterns are the origin of distractions from still ness. it is necessary to clear the space before it can be still. Craig

Right you are Yoda master. I used to do very intense sparring training in Tae Kwon Do, when I was more of a puppy. 90 minutes to 2 hours of straight kicking and sparring. I would get so hot that my metabolism would stay revved into the next day. I would sleep with my feet sticking out from the blankets because they would just be burning hot. I started studying the healing tao after several years of TKD training. I began employing six healing sounds to chill out after such workouts (which usually took place between 6pm and 8pm). The difference was very significant. That practice was kind of like putting oil back into a motor that had burned so hot that the coolant had all been dispersed. I attribute much of my ability to recover and not get significant injuries doing really hard sparring to my healing tao practices. I have since chilled out on the TKD and have broadened my studies a great deal, but during that time, the healing sounds were crucial in cooling off my overheated engine. I always thought my practice was a bit of a dichotomy, extreme Yang TKD sparring training, combined with healing tao meditation and chi kung and Tai Chi. Worked for me. Now I just do a little TKD once in a while with the attitude of "playing around" Also, no longer in the same state where I was practicing. The energetic effects are not the same on me as they once were. Now I do some bicycling as my hard style workout. I work my body pretty hard doing that, and do incorporate a lot of conscious breathing, including healing sounds. As a matter of fact cicyling is where I first began to play with breathing techniques for enhanced energy even before I was seriously into martial arts or had even heard of chikung. But that's another story. Craig

Craig[/i] Many great thoughts. So I dug up the book and re-read it. Good news: kidneys are associated with curiousity and desire to learn. My kidneys are quite the bookworms! I have been skipping the postures and resting/smiling between sounds--so I'll add those in. Just did a session, then smiled at my balls for awhile, and it was great. Tonight was a no-nookie night, so the happy balls hit the spot. -Yoda 6316[/snapback] Thanks for the Kudos bro. I have given away probably 1/2 dozen of these books over time. When making this post I was initially surprised to find that I didn't even own this book anymore! My advice was particulary tailored to Karen who seems to have extreme low energy issues. Somewhere I absorbed the info that to do the sounds in rapid succession will have a very different effect thatn doing them with long resting periods between. I think rapid performance is energizing perhaps. But, I thought for someone who has extreme fatigue that just to do the external sound and movement followed by resting would be best for starters. The sounds can of course be done without the postures, and I have done that often as well, lying down, or driving...whatever. But as with most things the synergistic effect of drawing together all possible sensory inputs will create the strongest effect. Sound, color, feeling, movement, emotion both positive and/or negative, internal weather (ie cool dry for lungs, cold wet kidneys, warm moist liver...). Did I leave any out? It's easy to forget that this is a challenge for beginners to work with all of these simultaneously. I think one of the amazing things about Taoist work is the expectation that one can be aware of so many things at the same time, and work with them. Just doing each healing sound once in conjunction with deep inner smile practice during rest phase are a great way of telling your shen, "hello there. I am ready to gather everyone together" and move on with fusion and other alchemical practice. I am one in favor of simplicity and the elegant power of the basics. How far can one go by starting with the inner smile and tan tien breathing and just let everything happen? Quite far I feel. Cheers Craig

Yes you can recycle your energy without trying to stop menstruation. In fact exercises such as ovarian breathing do just that. It takes a great deal of will and specific intention/practice to stop menstruation. I think you are staying too physically focused here. The basic concept of sperm retention/sexual energy cultivation for males is to recycle energy from the sperm, not the sperm or prostatic fluid itself. Likewise the taoist theory is that men lose most energy from ejaculation and women lose most energy through menstruation. Both of these sources can be tapped for energy recycling without stopping the natural process. Again, I am not a woman, nor am I even acquainted with any who have achieved no menstruation through practice. Though I did have a brief encounter, in a group, with a Taoist nun who gave some advice on this practice. Of course there are many other things women can do to help themselves. That is entirely beside the point. The Taoist's look at every aspect of life and try to analyze what is its nature, what is the energy dynamic. From that perspective they try to maximize the lifeforce and minimize health draining activities. Please refer to my comments again about extreme positions. It is one extreme seek complete cessation of menstruation. However there is a lot of room in between to cultivate sexual energy and recycle energy which is otherwise lost in the blood during the cycle. This won't result in immediate cessation of menstruation but will result if properly done in increased recycling of energy. What does menstruation have to do with sex. I am of the opinion that it is a bad idea to have sex during menses. It definitely goes against the energy the woman is going through at the time. During this time I think it is an excellent time for quiet contemplation and self healing, not sex. Again, don't get stuck onthe physical concept of stopping menstruation as the goal of energy recycling for women. With that said, there are many women in the Tao community who have improved their vitality through these practices. Craig

Wow, what a discussion. Sometimes the way the forum is set up works really well. Though it is harder to respond to and individual and create a thread down from a response. I aim to discuss further what has been brought up about Female side of the sexual practices. One common thread I see when discussing the Sexual practices is the emphasis by some of the alchemical transmutation of sexual energy, and others stay on a much more physical plane when discussing these things. With regards to the concept of slaying the red dragon. It is certainly not for me to say what the best approach is for any woman, being as I am a man. However I have studied this material for a long time so I am going to discuss my idea based on intellectual transmission of theory, as opposed to true EXPERIENCE, which is the most important palce to come from when teaching or even discussing such things. Just as with seminal retention the eventual goal should be to move beyond physical manipulation of the body to the actual extraction and transmutation of essence out of the physical/jing level into chi....etc. With the womens practice the idea of ovarian breathing is to first make a connection with this vital energy. The goal is to extract the vital essence from the eggs to transmute into energy which is recycled back into the body on the chi level to eventually fuel the shen level. It has been expressed that some (Lozen I think) feel that this process of intentionally slaying the Red Dragon is artificial and incorrect practice. I would suggest that one look at both ends of the spectrum. one end is leaving things as they are and having "Normal" menstruation. The other end of the spectrum would be the employment of various practices with the express purpose of stopping menstruation. It would seem that whether one is opposed to altogether stopping menstruation or not, that the value of recycling ones energy should be recognized. The theory is that through the practice of ovarian breathing one should be able to activate the connection to the eggs and to extract the essence, in part, to recirculate in the energy body as more chi. AS a corrollary to this effect of chi circulation is that since energy is being moved from that system one of the effects should be the balancing of the menstrual cycle if there are imbalances. Also along the spectrum of fully stopping the cycle is the effect of reducing the duration and amount of menstrual flow, which is an indication of success with energy recycling. Also less blood loss should, I think be a desireable result. Of course the point that the flow results in detoxification of impurities is well expressed and certainly valid, to a point. Eventually detoxification could occur more effectively through alchemical practices. So the point I am trying to make here is that rejection of the concept of female sexual energy practice in toto may be missing the benefits which may be derived while not going to the extreme of complete cessation of menstruation. I believe Ken Cohens warnings on the subject are somewhat accurate for the lay practitioner. Erring on the side of caution on this subject. However in the perspective of achieving fuel for the alchemical process I feel he is avoiding this subject. It is a cautious and responsible position to take. Remember, as Michael Winn often points out, there is a big difference between pursuing chikung and Taoist practice for health and longevity and pursuing the same for the purpose of Alchemy. It is a different level of committment. Again, the same point needs to be reiterated for men. Complete cessation of ejaculation is an extreme position and one should understand what it implies and what the ramifications of this approach are. along the spectrum towards cessation is the very healthy idea of reduction of ejaculation, and the recycling of energy before during and after coitus. Recycling of the energy is the first part, which in my opinion is a very good idea. How far along that spectrum you go is up to you, and understanding what to do when you get further along is very important. All for now. Happy sexual play to you all whether single, dual or multiple combinations. Craig

According to some it is not the end of the world, but a change of state. Reporting, not agreeing with. Changing from 3 dimensional to beyond three dimensional (4th dimension or...) not sure I can wrap my head around that one. I read a book about people doing Remote Viewing and they couldn't see past December 2012. Can't cite the source, but another snippet of connection, if you put any stock in such a source. Michael Winn talks about the changing energy body of the planet and how things are "expanding" or "opening up". This change is for those who align themselves, or who accept it. Eventually there will be earth as we know it, but worse, and a newearth of a different/expanded vibration which those who make the energy shift will participate in. I don't know...but it seems obvious that things can't remain as they are. On the physical plane; What happens when we run out of oil and we arent' prepared with alternatives?? Read "Out of Gas" a simple short primer on what's coming after the Peak of Oil Production comes, with the resulting fall off of supply in face of ever rising demand. Or "Crossing the Rubicon" which details the whole strategy behind our current wacko administrations grab for resources. They know what's coming more than the blind american public does. Disagree with them or not they are making decisions and taking actions based on the coming energy shortage/decline of oil production which will throw everything out of whack. Michael talks about earth changes and the potential for large populations dissappearing from the earth simultaneously and creating an opening in the energy body of the earth which will allow for that transformation. Personally I am still having a hard time digesting that one. Maintaining a spiritual perspective in the face of hellish earthly possibilites is quite a challenge. Will there be a spiritual change coming on 2012? Will it be the end of history? Who knows? Will things change dramatically in the next 7 years on the physical plane? I would say definitely yes. Mostly I try to get on with my stuff and not obsess too much (work on my earth issues!) Sometimes when I feel really balanced I know that all I need to nourish me is accesible in my center, my true home. Sometimes I think my head will explode Craig

Hi all. Ummm...it occurs to me that everyone is still talking about training wheels. My education, courtesy of M.Chia primarily, was that the finger lock technique (wherever the pertinent point may be exactly) was an emergency technique which should eventually be grown out of. The point is to move the energy with mind/intent, rather than let it almost leak out and then physically block it. This is forcing, and therefore, like traditional Iron shirt from M.Chia, somewhat excess yang and unnatural. Big draw is also not the end all of training. One should evolve to small sips and just circulating energy in rest phase. My two cents. Craig

HI all. I am in the industry. I strongly suggest you take the brand Trunk is taking. You want Tahitian Noni which is made from the Juice, not reconstituted BS from India, or China. I would only trust the original brand name. There is a lot of BS Indian Noni which isn't from the same place and is a powder. Just garbage in my opinion, and I trade nutritional supplement raw materials for a living. Craig

Tae Kwon Do practitioner since 1980 Judo for a few months at age 8 Studied Chi Kung w/ M.Chia then M.Winn since 1986 (approx). In about 1995 I started seriously training with a man who studied chen style TaiChi and who was also teaching Bagua and Hsing I. Over the course of two years or so my whole fighting style changed. I became more connected to the earth, and began to really understand what it means to move with the whole body connected. TKD feels brittle and broken into peices by comparison. Tremendously more powerful through structure training. I love TaeKwonDo - as a game. It's fun. But to do it and hold your structure and not excessively overextend is a whole different animal. Hard to continue to train with regular External TKD stylists. But sometimes fun to use internal style tricks in sparring. Eventually it comes down to what you want out of it. TKD is a fun sport, but I consider it elementary school when it comes to sophistication. Chen Style Tai Chi would be in this methaphor PHD work, which takes decades. But , whoo boy, real Chen stylists have juice like you wouldn't believe!! Craig

Hi everyone. I am sure you are probably thinking by now that we have covered this ground before but here is the background for the question. I have a friend. I have discussed on very light terms the concept of Taoism and Taoist practices and sciences of various kinds. He recently said to me on a business trip "Hey, can you get me a book on Taoism. Just one book that would explain what it is, so that when I'm done reading all 567 pages of it I will have a good general understanding of what it is." Of course I smiled to myself and thought "Oh sure like it's that easy to define something as broad as Taoism even in one big Tome." Also of course, you would think I would be emminently qualified to answer such a question after so many years of involvement in such things. But perhaps I'm too immersed in it to see what would be the best approach here. So I throw it out to you all. Any ideas? Many thanks to you all in advance. Craig