awake

I just went to the library to pickup a book I needed for school, and this one was sitting on the shelf opposite of it glaring in the sunlight. Also nearby was a relevant book to another project I am doing for school. So, I decided to borrow this book titled "Ocean of Dharma, 365 Teachings on Living Life with Courage and Compassion, The Everyday Wisdom of Chogyam Trungpa" I'd like to know if anyone of you has read the book and what you think of it, and Chogyam Trungpa. Thanks!

I went through a course last year called DHE 2000 by Richard Bandler. It was about how to control your state (Feelings) to whatever you want them to be, increase your joy, happiness, etc. After going through the program, I noticed my awareness was increased, I was thinking less, and I had about 5 momentary feelings of bliss in my neck peppered around in the next few days (3 were while listening to another one of his products, 2 were while I was laying on my couch getting ready to listen to a product about presence as applied to women). Anyway, about 6 months later, I had 3 instances within a day of eachother (2 within about 10 minutes of eachother, and 1 that night/next night, cant remember which night) where in that same spot in my neck, I experienced terrible terrible pain, as if someone had shocked me with a taser right there. The program called for you to remember what it was like to have a feeling (ilicit the state/feeling) anchor it (make a switch in your mind that was labelled the feeling), then pump/decrease it (pull the lever up/down). It worked, I was not able to make the feelings very strong, but I did manipulate them. I presume it is possible with practice to get a better control of these things. My question is, is it better to take this path of controlling how good I feel, or to just simply continue practice with no-mind (seeing thoughts float by and controlling my breathing), where I do not really feel much at all?

One time I was alone (and high) walking from my school to the bus station, about 1 HR there, and I laughed the whole way, sometimes at nothing, sometimes jokes would pop into my head and i would laugh more at them. When I reached the station, smiling at people made them laugh, people were coming up to me telling me I was very funny, and when I started to laugh people did too. Its all about practicing the pathways you want to illicit in others..

how can you define a moment, when it does not end or begin?

Drugs give you a taste of the enlightened mind (feeling), but do not take care of the necessary steps in quieting the mind to do so, and so are positive in that they allow people to experience there is indeed more to life, but detrimental when used as a means of reaching that way.

Thank you all for your suggestions so far. I too am wondering about this question this poster is asking, as I have been having negative feelings come up for me, and notice my ability to call them up at will. They also come up as a result of thoughts, and I am able to stop thought and stay with the feeling. I wonder if doing so is "cleansing" them from my self, or deepening them.

My old avatar was bart simpson tripping on slurpee, that switched between like 4 frames. This one is a mandelbrot set.(fractal) Still cool to watch Looking for advice on this issue still.

Why is it that when a sad or bad state of being comes over me, I don't want it to go away, I don't want to let it go?

I am indeed getting into walking. I think the true question I am trying to ask here is, is feeling through these feelings is eroding them from myself, or making the power of those feelings over me stronger?

Which one makes more sense to you? To me, meditation = wisdom, feeling good = practical experience. The former hasn't caught up with the latter yet, and this program seems like a "shortcut" through the process, but I don't know if I'll miss out on the wisdom (in the form of, attachmentless mindset) by not meditating. Then again, the process of DHE 2000 is like meditation, but with switches in your mind where you pump the feelings while meditating. So I don't know which one makes more sense, I am confused. Which one makes you feel better? I've had some extreme experiences with both, I'd say DHE 2000 made me feel better overall though (since the bliss) but even this I'm not sure of. Do you have any examples of when either seemed to be the case? Yes, yes, and yes twice more. This is why I'm not sure of what to do. If it wasn't for the [possibly resulting] neck pain, I would give DHE a second shot, so I want to see people's opinions here on what controlling your feelings could cause you in the long run versus surrender to nothingness.

whats so powerful about it?

Well you have to talk to him an dsee waht he means by it, but it probably means soemthing about seeing everything as one thing If so, it is not something you need to worry about understanding. Just quiet your mind. Notice space between thoughts, and begin to transform your awareness to primarily space (stillness)

I wasn't implying that, just giving an interesting related story, but I don't know how useful or practical of a test this is for psychic abilities. I think our ability to influence our future is equal to our ability to be able to forsee it, but that is just a theory

The answer is always fucking waves. On that note, I took an Art of Math class once. We were looking at this pattern where it a computer program that drew triangles made of triangles (like the ones in Zelda) based on 100% random points. But, the program always had to start at some random first point, so there was usually 1 black dot, sometimes more, when the random 1st point was not on a line or coloured area. So I challenged the class to think "bottom right triangle" as an exercise to see if we could control where the dot went. The teacher refreshed the program (generated a new image with new random first point) and after a few refreshes, it was in the bottom right triangle of every bottom right triangle (as it was a big triangle made up of 3 little triangles each made up of 3 smaller triangles, etc, meaning the bottom right triangle had it, then in that one, the bottom right had it, then in that one, the bottom right, etc.). It was shocking to me, and one of the teachers, but the class did not make much of it. The teacher left the program for a wihle as he taught his lesson, then ran it once more again (i don't know why). This time, every single bottom right triangle had a black dot in it. That was it for me, our minds control our realities, and far more than ourselves. They said on Fringe this week that the human body contains enough dormant energy to explode with the force of 3 hydrogen bombs.

http://www.thetaobums.com/Golden-Flower-Me...help-t9879.html As part of that, my upper back is now hurting very badly. It hurts when i am in a car that is accelerating, when I am moving, and just randomly sometimes, around my spine (i don't think directly on the spine) as well as all the area on either side up to my arms. I am going to the doctor tomorrow. Please advise what I can do in the meantime.

I just did meditation while the monks were teaching youths, sitting there focusing on my breath with eyes closed. Sometimes I stopped to listen to what they were saying. No, none of those symptoms, but the pain seems to be making me irrational and easily agitated, especially by my mother, who repeats very useless patterns and does not understand much without it being repeatedly explained to her. Yesterday I focussed on the energy I felt after being sick in the past and knowing I had to go back to school (and I was always sick on the weekends, and healthy for monday, so that energy is fairly well established). Today I awoke and was able to get in and out of bed without too much difficulty, just minor pain, so it seems to be subsiding. @neidan practitioner: The mind works in mysterious ways, I believe mine is still content based (attached), and I still have to take the exercise suggested to me to make clear my intentions about meditation.

Thank you all again so far. I am trying, but it is indeed hard, when you are in pain even from standing. Like my progression of noticing stillness and attachment with thoughts, I am noticing progress in relaxing even through this pain. I am going to the doctor tomorrow to diagnose what could be wrong. My father has also made an appointment with a chiropractor, but I am hesitant about this. I would like to hear you guys' thoughts on this issue. I can barely get in and out of bed, moving in such ways hurts so much.

I am referring to the meditation written about here: http://www.goldenflowermeditation.com/ More specifically, this is the page: http://www.goldenflowermeditation.com/the_method.html I had been quieting my mind for a while before discovering this. The meditation author says to wait about 100 days before you detect the movement of breath. I did it in 2, but not into my stomach, etc, as he says, just in my windpipe. Maybe my prior work with my mind explains this. Anyway, I "reversed it" like said in the method,and could feel that it was so. Not much (maybe about 2 hours cumulatively in ~1 week) of my time since then has been spent doing this exercise. However, right now, I am feeling a feeling that goes up and down my spine, from my root chakra, to about 3/4 up my back. It doesn't go higher than that. When it reaches 3/4, like clockwork my mind speeds up. I am worried, because he says NOT to do imagination work, etc, it can cause the "seminal fluid" (lets not get into a debate of if thats what it really is) to "go up the wrong channels" and cause debilitating effects. I found some hemi-sync product that said breathe in, out, then clench your pubic muscles (try and isolate them) and imagine your kunalini energy go up your spine or something to that effect. I did the visualizations a few times. The feeling is not "good" i would call it neutral, and the spine is a very tender area, so I want to be sure before proceeding. I did also take drugs during this time and while I do (weed) I am able to feel more so I experience feeling my feelings, etc. Could this having visualized have a negative impact on me? Also, why do you think it only stops at 3/4 of the way?

My words are to the best of my ability to describe what is my real situation. Again I thank you for your doubt, and your help until now, but like I replied to your similarly accusitory and derogatory post in my other thread, I have many better things to do with my time than pretend spiritual progress. I think you mistake my lack of experience, for trickery. I sincerely apologize that I am not wise enough to meet your standards, however, when physical experience turns physically painful, I think we naturally seek relief, as has been pointed out to me by the replies in the thread you are referring to here. If you have some sort of wisdom for healing that is "beyond" getting results, or would like to clarify just why you think I am a fraudulent case, I would appreciate you clarifying. Regardless, I thank you for your advice so far.

You seem to again be getting into the "non-dualism to explain dualistic phenomena" mindzone. I can't argue with that mindset, because it is true, but at the same time, it also allows for dualistic explanation of dualistic phenomena. To point out the logical conundrums of your answer, if information did not accumulate, you would not need to have posted more than one word. Theories of physics rely and depend on one another for proof of eachother. "The apple" is less information than "the apple is red" it is different information, yes, but also less information. Indeed the trouble comes when one begins to discount all phenomena because they are all the same thing essentially, that does not deny the fact that they have an identity - they are unique manifestations of the same one thing, otherwise, there would literally be no thing in perceived reality. Even when experiencing 'oneness' you are still aware of the things, just your attention has shifted. Especially so, non-duality does not deny anything, which you seem to be doing. Quotes about non-duality that deny, except with the intention of paradox, point to a misunderstanding of it.

It started yesterday evening after I awoke from a nap after visiting the meditation center for 5 and a half hours during a service. It seems to hurt more when I concentrate on it, earlier today, and just at this moment my arms are beginning to ache too. Thanks for your doubt, but I am not. I have much better things to do than sit here poking at your compassion switch for my own shits and giggles, man. I wonder why you say this. Also thanks to everyone else who has helped so far. I will indeed seek medical opinion, and try your recommendations (as well as any other I may receive)

I didn't meet one of literal thetaobums.com members. However, I was fascinated at a bus stop yesterday. I had just finished smoking (have since stopped, though I don't know how long that will last) and was trying to quiet my mind. This homeless man came from across the street, came into the shelter, and said something about the weather to me. I think I nodded. I became very afraid of him, because he looked quite "nothing to lose-esque" with his tattered pants, shirt, 5-inch-long white beard, and very dirty feet, as well as the fact that he was moving quite erratically. I thought of him as "a crazy homeless guy." I continued with him there, trying to still my mind. Then I began to notice something very strange and very fascinating. He would only make one of these movements when a thought came into my mind. It may have been a coincidence, but within half a second of any thought that came to my mind, he would move, sometimes they would be accompanied by a brief sound, though incomprehensible. Otherwise, he would be still. I noticed, the more a thought stream began to erupt, rather than just a single thought, the more he would string together movements, and the more erratic they would become. I quickly noticed this, and it helped me I think a lot in realizing the stillness between thoughts. At first, he would just make random twitches, then, his movements changed to kicking the air behind him. Later on, during the last part of our encounter, he would turn 360 degrees around fully in a circle every time I had a thought. I remember one particular time when I was beginning to identify with a particularly heavy thought, he made a very loud sound, and his whole body twitched. I had seen this man before, on the bus, as he did get on when he left my presence (very notably was still spinning, while walking, and waiting beside the bus behind the others to get on it), and when I had seen him, he had his fingers on either of his temples in an outstretched way (think Mr. Burns' "excellent" hands, but outstretched more as if holding a large ball). Anyway, he did the same thing when he got on this bus, and I noticed he had no money to pay the driver with, he just let him on. Each time I've seen him, after he left, I wanted to ask him "What do you know?" I'm pretty sure the answer would've been something like "Shhhh." but the thought of asking him only occurred to me after he left. Now, I am just 17 years old. What does this say about the nature of our thoughts, when he could sense mine?

Ok, but I said nothing about "more quantity" If you are referring to my point about knoweldge, yes, there is more knowledge. This is evident by the fact that we know more about thngs today than we did a long time ago, and so presumably, this is not the end of the world. We have faith, much like in that there is a next moment in religion, that there is a next thing in knowledge. Again in reference to th emiddle path.

That was a joke. Gangaji sound like anything familiar? Thank you. Though many people who argue religious philosophy always make everything out to be dualistic, and similar at the core, they are often blinded by their vision (if it is just a theory, as the constant anger and frustration you express in this forum seems to indicate it is for you, goldisheavy), or by their actual experience, and end up discounting the fact that not everyone is enlightened (or thinks they're enlightened) and so yes, their personal experience is undoubtedly different from yours. I have also heard almost all of the great teachers, spiritual, or alternate routes, such as NLP, quantum mechanics, say that reality is only shared perceptually, it does not exist, and so each person makes their own experience of it. I have heard many of the "enlightened" teachers also admit that their experience is not the same as another's. We are all of the same essence, this is perhaps true, but we are all unique, we all look unique, we all have our own perception, and denying that in lou of the first one is the reason Zen masters are disgusted by the purely enlightened state as being the primary one of operation for some: it blinds them into thinking thats all there is. That is not all there is. We still live in a world of duality. Or you would not know to eat, to drink. Eating only exists in relationship to not eating, food is only food because you cannot eat plastic and metal for sustinance. By the plain and simple fact that these teachers are still alive, posits there is a dualistic world, and they operate in it, using its concepts. It is a shame some teacher's messages are misconstrued; they are there to describe the experience of enlightenment, or what have you, to you, not to give you an end all be all answer to life. Life is ever changing, ever existing, so there is no end all be all, that would assume there is an end to life. Again judging by the fact that these teachers are alive still, I posit that enlightenment is not the end of life. It is important to look at things with perspective, not just through the eyes of religious dualistic or non-dualistic philosophy and claiming everything is one thing as an excuse to explain all things. Do you think we would even be on the internet at all today if people just took it as "ok well thats it." No. Do you think the wisest people in our times, the truly enlightened thinkers, Einstein, Hawking, who, by their quotes, and peoples experience, did posess the same quality, were wise because they sat there meditating? No, they recognized the middle path, walking with one foot in both worlds. Thank you.

i was in too much pain before to fully explain the situation. what do you mean, tensing up? It is a physical sensation of soreness, hurtness, so much so it is hard to even get in and out of bed (when i twist, or am about to lay down, i can feel pain in a cylinder around where my spine should be) Otherwise it is mostly constant soreness in my shoulder blade areas, indeed in the upper 1/4 of my back. For those who do not want to go through the entire thread there, you do not need to, here is the jist of it: I felt "kundalini" or "Du Mai" or "Root Chakra" (i don't know which, all different names, the feeling is at the bottom of the spine) energy, that has been at various places up and down my spine for the past few days. It was not able to go past 3/4 up my spine, and the last 1/4 (where it did not reach) is now sore. Some members say that it is a block I have incurred. This hurts a lot and I am unsure if this is past energy built up that is now expressing itself (like yesterday I had some powerful sadness come up during meditation), or if this is a direct negative effect of the opening energy telling me I should stop. When I was high, I did some energy manipulation around this area. It was not that great energy, though, I think this may also be a potential cause. Thats all I can think of for now. Thanks fr any light you could shed, and I would appreciate if this could stay in general, as it will undoubtedly receive the most views here, and is a matter, I think, of utmost importance. (if you could feel my pain)