Vajrahridaya

Psychic powers can kind of suck if you are really looking to be as selfless as possible in each moment. Other than that, they are good for manipulating people and situations with people. Also, psychic powers do help you see your own deep seated fears and discomforts with a sometimes horrid level of agility that can be very almost insane. I'm not really a huge fan... as sometimes I miss the simplicity of not knowing whats on other peoples minds, and what's in other dimensions directly on an experiential beyond mere theory level.

Yes, I'm not sure I can agree that the Buddhas, and Lau Tzu, Chuang Tzu and Jesus came to the exact same level of unlearning, but all of them are great beings worthy of respect. If we are on a spiritual path, we are most definitely making progress towards the "right", figuratively speaking. We can only benefit through contemplation, virtue and meditation no matter the tradition. It's just that according to Buddhism, one needs to have right view in the viewless view in order that one is not conditioned by these processes of unlearning. As in the visions in meditation and what not that arise from deep in the unconscious. For instance Muhammad went into meditation in a cave and came out saying that his God told him to conquer the world. You know... so Mohamed unlearned his more mundane ignorance in order to have a meditative vision of "God", to learn a more transcendent type of ignorance calling it heaven or God's word, but it's ignorance just the same. Though, there is plenty of virtue to be spoken of within Islam of course and Christianity to boot, and there are the non-traditional Sufi's who most Muslims don't consider to be Muslim at all. Anyway... my contention with most traditions is not so cut and dry, just that I don't find most of them to be complete in and of themselves. Though they do seem similar in certain ways and sometimes come to many of the same conclusions through different wording, but I don't find that they truly cut through the seed of re-becoming because they still believe in an ultimate and self standing existent, no matter how transcendent, still only reveals a subtle formless ignorance called "clinging". I find in many ways though not all, that Taoism to be more in line with what the Buddha taught which is why I'm not in a Christian room or an Islamic room. Thank you!

Ok, wonderful! So basically you are saying that the Tao is just infinite potentiality that all is. You can get along with it, or fight it every step of the way causing unneeded pain and suffering. Really... I just wish to cut through it, and see directly what it's all about to reveal the mystery completely. To make everything stand luminous, naked and transparent is all I wish for so that I don't stumble into confusion every again. The Buddha comes from singularity, but just utilizes that energy differently then those of us who follow the recycling program. A Buddha is just a person like you or me who has realized the fundamental malleable nature of all phenomena including energy and consciousness and thus is not trapped by unconscious recycling patterns anymore. Is not trapped by fixed or static concepts about his or herself anymore either. To say a Buddha is beyond the cosmos is merely just a figure of speech, as there really is no escape, there is only realizing directly it's nature and being free in it. Really, there is merely escape from ignorance through correct cognition of phenomena, which is not merely conceptual, but deeply intuitive. It's the same energy, not outside of the cosmos, just a different experience of cosmos from the rest of us ignorant baboons who flutter about thinking we have any control and thinking that the choices we are making are free, but really just bound by so many layers of habit patterns and reactions based upon fear of extinction or loss of one sort or another.

No, I don't want it to be anything other than what Taoists think of it to be. It seems that there are plenty of Taoists that do think of it as some sort of primary will and original cause of everything though. I do enjoy your take on it though. Deconstructing the idea of an origin is exactly what the Buddha did.

But the statement you quoted is saying that the heavens and Earth occur due to the Tao, but the Tao is self occurring, or self perpetuating? I'm just trying to understand Marblehead what you are getting at. Ok, so everything moves due to the Taos will of movement?

Yes, and so have you! It's just a matter of remembering.

No, there was singularity, yes of course, but Buddhism explains how this occurs based upon the previous universe. It's called the pralaya in sanskrit when the quieting of the different elements of manifesting occurs at the end of a particular universe. It is a real phenomena, just not independently originated. Yes... this is what I'm saying. Just that this can be experienced directly through meditation as oneness when one goes deep into the unconscious past matter as it is experienced through the 5 senses. Deep within where matter and consciousness connect on a deeper paradigm. But, I'm saying that this singularity is merely suppressed potential, it is the way Samsara or universal cycling and re-cycling works, but cutting through this singularity is the special insight of dependent origination.

Listening to this now... very cool! There are 8 levels of Samadhi and a 9th listed sometimes but is more of an insight transcending Samadhi which is dependent origination, transcending the previous popular notion of independent origination stating that all things come from one thing that is a primal origin, or source of all things. So, this is where Buddhism departs from other traditions. This youtube video is interesting. The thing is, is that outer scientific investigation will be endless due to the fact of infinite regress and infinite universes, as this universe is not merely based upon itself, but it's based upon other universes or dimensions that are theorized about in modern quantum physics, but mostly only directly experienced by the mystics. I saw what you meant by 6 quarks though based upon viewing this video you've posted.

You are quite funny. Right view is merely dependent origination. So, I actually do know right view directly due to having direct experience of emptiness and all the various stages of consciousness and co-relating experiences with the 31 realms that go along with the different jhanas. I just haven't completed the outcome of the path, so am trying to remain humble. Even though I do see directly what the cause of my bondage is through the glimpses beyond it. I just haven't completed the unraveling process. I thank you for helping with my patience ralis!! You my dear are an enemy causing me great fortune!!

It's actually very blissful , but would not be considered complete insight for a Buddha.

So this is talking about independent origination, or self origination.

I'm not saying there is anything outside of singularity, just that singularity itself is a mis-cognition of phenomena. There is no "oneness", just the experience of oneness which arises dependent upon view. This is philosophy, just not Taoist.

Look at the first post, this was originally posted as a discussion mentioning Buddhism. Why can't you guys just argue the points, the similarities and differences without taking personal offense? You are stating the Taoist position, which is fine and I'm stating the Buddhist position in a thread opened up mentioning Buddhism to begin with. As the forum says, this is a place to discuss all spiritual traditions as well as Taoism. There is no need for this type of angry banter. I can be quite nice and civil, even if I disagree. Why can't you?

Actually Buddhism doesn't teach this. Buddhism teaches that the misunderstanding of life is suffering. Samsara is basically just a mis-cognition of the nature of phenomena and Nirvana is just the correct cognition of phenomena. Nirvana is the extinction of craving, not suicide or obliteration from life. Neither is it an escape. Your view of Buddhism suffers from a lack of investigation into what it actually teaches. Making your points quite mute.

Insight and trance are different. The results of trance prove dependent origination. That what you experience is determined by view, thus the viewless view of dependent origination is a paramount insight if it's deluding power is to be emptied. Thus flipping the bondage of dependent origination, into freedom from all extremes.

Ralis, you've never proved me wrong. Of course I restate my arguments leading to the same conclusion because if my previous wording is mis-understood, then the structure should be clarified. Of course I think I'm right, just as you do. :lol:

It's actually through critical thinking backed by meditative experience that brought me to "right view" and Buddhism.

Not fear of being re-absorbed, but rather, knowledge of it's cause as ignorance. The cause for re-absorption is ignorance of ones empty and thus free nature. When there is still a subtle clinging to existence, through whatever transcendent non-thing you want to call the "Self" of all, either personal or impersonal, there will be re-absorption. This is why the teaching on Anatta (not-self) and emptiness as well as dependent origination is very, very important if you want to get liberated. This is where the Buddhist teachings deeply differ from any other tradition on Earth.

You are welcome to your opinion.

Not really escape the cosmos, but rather escape pralaya (big crunch of the lower dimensions). As a pureland, or a realm reflective of the compassionate intention of a Buddha is still part of cosmos, which just means everything, but it's not part of any suffering aspects that come and go.

This is actually not the case with the Buddha. His main disciples who were the heads of the counsels were Buddhas themselves. There are doctrinal differences and these differences are due to the fact that there are different approaches, 84,000 approaches.

Yes, we did. The discussion of how this occurs is in many Dzogchen texts, including the Kunjed Gyalpo or "All creating king". This is Buddhist cosmology 101. This is what the Buddha taught, this is what is taught in Mahayana and this is what is taught in Dzogchen. You can also have direct experience of this fact through meditative insight. Endless beings are the co-creators of the cosmos, not one being. We create the universe over and over again through our various attachments and cravings on all the different levels from higher heaven realms to lower suffering realms, as well as this dense 3 dimensional realm. We have done so through the energy of our samsaric minds, lifetime after lifetime from one dimension or another, both the beautiful and the ugly.

From a Buddhist perspective, this is actually incorrect. We've talked about how and why as well. The Buddhist path does not stop at oneness saying this is the peak realization. In Buddhism as explained by Gotama, there is deeper to do, as this is only reaching the storehouse consciousness and not fully emptying the basis for re-emergence into ignorance. Buddhas are not re-absorbed at the end of the universal expression during the big crunch or the pralaya. Those who stopped at formless oneness and attach the idealization of "the end all be all" to it, calling it "the unnameable source of existence"... are re-absorbed to be recycled.