Vajrahridaya

Yes, the thing is, is that it might just be my karma, but I've only met people who were healed through the path. Professionals, as well as people who might have gone down the wrong road or were down the wrong road, completely turned around by the path. I've not met anyone exhibiting cult like behavior. At least those that I befriended. So yeah, none of this stuff makes sense. Swami Muktananda was a fan of critical thinking and Gurumayi has even said not to follow her teachings just because she said them, but to weigh them on the scale of personal experience and honest investigation. She has said that verbatim. If one reads the teachings of Muktananda and Gurumayi, there isn't this cult like teaching, it's all about finding "god" within. Everything they've said and I've read tons of material, revolves around that end. Teaching people to be independent light givers, realizing their internal connection to all beings and things. I've met some really enlightened Siddha Yogi's, my Mom included. This whole idea that they are all rich and models is silly too, very unfounded. That website is some biased, one sided overzealous bs, in my experience and I'm not even involved in SY marga anymore. So, for someone who's researched the accusations, only seen the positive, experienced the positive, except for some things that SYDA does, with red tape and having raised prices over the years, it's just completely inconsistent.

It's not really that many people. Plus how they say it happened has been debunked. Muktanandas room in Ganeshpuri does not have a secret passageway. If it did, it would have to be dug underground, under the courtyard, into a hole on the floor in a closet or something in the womens dorms. There are just too many inconsistencies. Plus, like I said, Muktananda was publicly seen at every single Guru Gita in the morning, which is every single day of the week at 5am, plus sometimes early enough to be at the morning arati which is at 3:30am and was seen in public until 9 to 10pm or later every single night. So, either he didn't sleep giving him time to do shady things at night, making him some sort of powerful demon or the information is corrupt to begin with. Demons don't give off as much power of love and light that he did. He wasn't merely charming, he was actually palpably powerful with positive energy where people who knew nothing of kundalini and nothing of spirituality would go into deep states of meditation, experience deepened states of awareness in his presence, over and over again. Long ago in the 70's Muktananda did say of Afro Sai Baba that he was a fake when meeting him. He even snuck up behind him in public and a picture was taken, he then said that Sai Baba would have known who was sneaking up behind him if he was as high up as he claimed to be. I even have that power to see things beyond the eyes, and detect people behind me and I'm a nobody. Muktanandas Guru, Nityananda was incredible as well and there's lots of BS about how he wasn't a real devotee of Nityananda when I knew a couple of devotees who were devotees of Nitayananda, Muktananda and then Gurumayi who said that Nityananda told them to go to Muktananda. There are just too many inconsistencies between what I know to be true and what is just printed on that site. Plus, like I said, I talked to Pendragon, the starter of that site and the person is nuts and came across as a paranoid schizophrenic. That's my unprofessional opinion, but I do have knowledge in that field. p.s. I do think SYDA is a bit creepy though and is too expensive! Another reason why I had to leave. Not as expensive as many other groups and when I was young they worked on a sliding scale making everything very inexpensive for me until the age of 24, but still. 500 dollars for a weekend long intensive, it does include 3 meals, or used to but I don't think it does anymore? I think they are down to one day as well and you don't get free room and board anymore like you used to with the price? It's just crazy. Gurumayi has mentioned that SYDA does it's own thing and she's tried to make them lower the prices, but they don't listen to her.

That's true.

Still, lot's of BS in these accusations. I've done plenty of research, thus I know I'm right. Which is enough for me.

Like I said, the light of the minds movement, beyond the physical is instantaneous, there are no boundaries. My Dzogchen master is far deeper than you've ever been. His own teachers attained the Rainbow Body, of which you don't have any knowledge and he gives mind to mind transmission that if you were open to it, would drop your pre-conceptions. But, it seems like you have a lot of conceptual armor on anyway. You seem to think you've already attained the summit of all knowledge and wisdom? It has nothing to do with that. Actually attaining the Rainbow Body is not a parlor trick or a regular siddhi, it is a reflection of realization of total integration of the physical body with the Samboghakaya. Like I said, you obviously have very little knowledge of Vajrayana. Beings do it in order to extend their connection to physically bound beings as it makes it easier to communicate with us body dwellers after death. Of course, they don't really die, they just dissolve into the non-physical clear light of pure awareness. The Jalus is a revelation of physical, not just mental integration with the clear light realization. We learn all this in middle school or early high school in the States. Yeah, you really haven't studied much Vajrayana. This has nothing to do with the Rainbow Body realization which is not really about attaining a rainbow of colors. It's about integrating the physical with the beyond physical radiance's from the vajra as it manifests the elements of concrete world experience through the different vibrances of the non-physical color spectrum. It's not about attaining a color. You don't read other peoples posts very well, or read the links made available, do you? Oh well... You are so great! You are so realized, you're beyond all the current masters! Sheesh. With this attitude, you won't learn anything. But, I guess you're not here to learn anything. I've also had the bliss experiences, the experiences of merging into the non-physical light, seeing from it's perspective, going beyond light as well into the samadhi of neither perception nor non-perception, which you could say is also neither illumination nor non-illumination. I'm still not a anuttarasamyaksambuddha and make space in my heart to learn from others posts.

I agree that these are bad sources in my opinion.

See, easily believed, because it was printed, without doing any research. People want money. Look at the accusations that Michael Jackson had to field with made up accusations done for the sake of getting money from him, through settling out of court. I don't believe Michael was a sexual predator, he just didn't experience a childhood and lived it out vicariously through the kids. Famous people know that things will be believed just because they are rumored to be true, so they settle out of court in order to avoid court fees and court record and name mud dragging.

Well, first of all, Muktananda didn't speak English, so much of these claims made by American women would have to be BS, unless he brought a translator along the entire time or talked to them on a psychic level. See, people have a tendency to just believe dark things, just because it's printed. Why don't people believe the positive things that are printed as easily? No doubt and critical thinking is put to this stuff, but everyone wants to doubt and criticize the positive stuff. Everyone always wants to think that there is something wrong. Also, it's not sweeping under the rug when one contextualizes some of these tantrically. It's actually a practice to elongate an enlightened beings life to engage in sexual tantra with a young women during his later years, and if you have experience in sexual tantra as I do, it's not unbelievable. Also, the secret passageway accusation about the Indian Ashram is absolute BS because his room was surrounded by the meditation cave(room), there is no way there was a secret passageway as I also know the building plans and people who built the Indian Ashram and it's not connected to any of the dorms. No one questions these accusations though, they just read them and go... "Oh... yeah". It wasn't in Muktanandas character to rape women. He also always had people with him, was writing continuously and giving talks continuously, up at every Guru Gita at 5am and to bed at 10pm, so he must have been up all night having sex with young women, then showing up to the regular practices with no sleep? Come on! He definitely was not perfect in the external ideal of it. He had some old world ideas about Gay sex and such. These views are not supported by Gurumayi as there are plenty of Gay people all over the more closer people in SYDA. But, if critical thinking is only going to be applied to the positive stuff and not the negative stuff printed, there is something unbalanced here. A lot of the stuff in that Leaving Siddha Yoga site is absolute BS, like Gurumayi having face lifts and nose jobs, etc. It's just such utter BS it's amazing that people even believe this stuff. But, they don't know better. Gurumayi obviously doesn't have any face work done because the signs of menopause are revealed on her face, with the slight sagging of her skin on her newer photos. suninmyeyes, I'm sorry that you went to that site, read stuff and just believed it without research. I grew up in Siddha Yoga and of course have come across much of these accusations throughout my life. But, I did research and I know many older people very deep in the organization, translators for Muktananda from both India to the US, also attendants of Muktananda. I'm sorry, but much of the information of the LSY site is BS and much else are just circumstances pulled out of context. Or just people contextualizing the teachings in a way that suits their pre-conceptions revolving around fear of cult mentality. I did leave Siddha Yoga about 5 years ago, but not because of this stuff. I left because I feel I've found a deeper path and philosophy in Buddhism and Dzogchen. Luckily I don't have to deal with people throwing crap in my face concerning ChNNR because he isn't a monk, is married with kids, there just isn't these conspiracy theories about him as there are about SYDA. Which is a nice thing. But, I am still astounded over and over again at how people believe these negative things about some great beings without critical thinking or research. But, if all that crap on the LSY site is true? Whatever, yeah right. Muktananda was a powerhouse of love and compassion and worked tirelessly for people introducing endless people to their own nature and offering practices for sustained realization. He also never said that, "I am the one godman." He taught others how to give shaktipat, and he also said to plenty of people that they should go practice Buddhism with this Vajrayana master or that one. He even did a retreat in Colorado with the last Karmapa. He was friends with many little known and some well known Indian Masters who visited him regularly in India. It's just really silly to think that these accusations could even be true considering he didn't speak English and his room wasn't even connected to the dorms, neither in India or in his South Fallsburg, Ashram. Also in the Oakland Ashram the Guru's room is separated from all the other rooms. It just doesn't jive. p.s. I've also talked with Pendragon online. The person is crazy and can't field any criticism of the information listed on the site. People do have a tendency to be crazy and over zealous. What to do?

The self is a relative incarnation arisen dependent upon all else. It does not inherently exist, nor does the self, self exist. It's existence and expressions arise dependently, thus it does not ultimately exist. This is all anatta (not-self) means in Buddhism. It's an attempt at intellectually pointing to expansive, self transcendent awareness while being quite self aware. As being self aware should naturally lead to expansive self transcendence as you are not an island that popped itself out of infinity. You are an inter-dependent arising.

At the same time, there is something to be said about life elongation through sexual contact with the young, if you're tantrically open that is. My mother is a tantrica and does this, she has a PHD in women's' art and spirituality mostly reflected in Indian paradigms of Tantric females and arts. She is a deeply energetic 68 year old. Quite vigorous, both teaching on a University level and selling art and antiques due to her deep knowledge of art history. Swami Muktananda remained celibate for many decades until his later years, and I think elongated his life through sexual contact with some youth. I can experience this viscerally myself and I'm still only 36. This paradigm of thought is reflected in various Tantric scriptures too. They talk about sharing of energies, the older master injects wisdom and receives youth. I don't know if this is the case with Sogyal as there seems to be too many complaints. But with Swami Muktananda, the women said he wouldn't even ejaculate and at times wouldn't even get erect and at times would share various Tantric texts with the women and at other times not. Possibly knowing they were not ready to even understand it? None of them said they were abused, and he was vigorously still meeting people, giving teachings and writing books. But there are very detailed sexual tantric texts in the Shaivite tradition of which he was an adherent. At the same time, I don't know directly what these people were thinking or intending in these sexual connections. But seriously, there are texts that talk about this and I can understand their meaning viscerally, on a personal level. So... eh. I hold back my over damning judgments. These women might have gotten together and said, "Let's make some money!" Who here knows directly?? Just keep at your self evaluation of personal intentions.

Yup.

Some people do things from a state of mind that is not the same as what you would do the same thing for. Some great teachers who were involved in Sex scandals were quite perfect in other areas of their life and did carry the flame, but in other areas of life? Well sometimes we just don't know and are judging too harshly with very little information or just tabloid blow ups that don't cover the details. Either that, or in that area of that persons life, they are just lacking for whatever reason. Individuals are complicated beings and fundamentalist ideals of perfection can be pretty unhealthy and unwise to hold onto in the long run. I personally forgive Sogyal Rinpoche, and also, karma is a reality and if he did anything to purposefully hurt anyone, that will come around.

Like anything, it takes practice. You glimpsed, but didn't realize, that's all. Just practice! Just remember what brought you there and what it felt like, and the more and more you familiarize yourself with that glimpse, the more and more it will permeate your day to day activities.

Yes, I find that most people can agree with this. Letting this insight enhance ones direct experience of the world is another story though. One I'm still working out myself.

Yes, it does exist, just relatively so, not ultimately.

He's talking about the meditative void, called Mahashunya in Hinduism, or one of the formless states of samadhi in Buddhism often misunderstood as "emptiness" as elaborated upon in Buddhism, which is not so. As the experience of Mahashunya and the formless states of samadhi are also inter-dependently originated and empty of inherent existence.

Well, it's not a poor translation. It was rather written for those that have already gone through all the different layers of Buddhist texts and meditative experiences. It's not really a beginners text per say. It just has to be understood within reference to everything else the Buddha taught. For a Buddhist, that's not so hard to grasp as a Buddhist would be an avid reader of Buddhas teachings in all it's appearances, or at least desiring as such. You're not a Buddhist, so... it's quite understood why you would reject such statements having no real reference for these statements which a long time practicing Buddhist would. It's all good dude. I have no problem with you wanting clarification. It's understandable! As without context for these statements, they are pretty rude and silly sounding as it takes a body of one type or another to even say or hear such statements.

Actually not, as mystics of other traditions also reveal this realization. There are Christian mystics and Sufi mystics who reveal this through their teachings based upon direct meditative focus as well.

It just means that the body is just appearance. Emptiness does not mean nothingness, it means non-inherent existence. The body has relative existence, not inherent nor intrinsic nor does it have self existence.

True, as the darkness hides while the light reveals. People are scared to be naked and revealed as merely a play, rather than a seriously factual existence.

Actually, physical light does have a speed and distance to travel, it's not instantaneous like the luminescence of the mind. Why do we see the light of suns already passed still lit in the night sky? Because the light of these long passed suns is still traveling the distance to get here from far away dead galaxies which are now black holes. Do you know what the Rainbow Body is? Rainbow Body Please read up. The only way to know if this person Jack Elias attained the Rainbow Body realization is if he leaves nothing of his body at the end of his death process, of which there are a few types, those that leave fingernails and hair and those that leave nothing having turned all physical constituents into the light of the Samboghakaya. Also, those with realization but have lots of disciples with plenty that break virtue, will have too much of a physical connection with those students that don't follow the teaching well and will not be able to manifest the rainbow body, which I think is due to the fact of having physical particles linked with these students bodies of bad actions, but will still attain "phowa" through the crown chakra, transcending these physical links anyway. I don't think you've studied enough Vajrayana or met enough Vajrayana Masters in order to make a well educated opinion about it. Both of my Rinpoches teachers attained the Rainbow Body, not at all by stating so, but rather by proving so through what they revealed during their death process. This is proof enough that you are wrong in stating absolutely that no true Vajrayana lineage exists today.

Yes, I edited a few things. I've just re-edited to ad, "be" as well. Thanks!

Throughout my life, I've used that song to liberate myself from more confining states of mind myself.

True, very well put. I would suggest though that others do have different experiences and the expressions that may reflect these experiences might seem like mere beliefs to some, but I suggest allowing the space to consider that they might be reflective of your experiential potential as well.