Vajrahridaya

I'm glad I don't live in your head. Seriously... that's pretty severe. But... "Since everything is but an apparition, having nothing to do with good or bad, acceptance or rejection, one may well burst out in laughter" -Longchenpa

Yes, it feels like everything is in fact made of consciousness, one can see the sparks on a subtle dimension pervading everything, but it's really just awareness of the pure luminosity of the elements intermingling because they are empty and translucent, awareness is experienced as pervading everything. One feels so intimate with everything, even material things feel soft and open, but clinging to this as an identity is the cause of Eternalistic philosophies. Rather intuiting through comprehension of D.O. that all this is the co-generated display of infinite mind streams and the rainbow of elements as a creative matrix leads to the realization of the dharmakaya, not as a transcendent source of all things but as an eminent and infinite field of creative play without beginning or end, the thusness of the flow.

That's Buddhahood. Buddhanature is merely the inherent emptiness of a sentient being. Yes, I see your point here on realization, as in actualization. I don't like the word realization so much as a word in this context, because it assumes that there is something concrete happening. Though it's fine I suppose because you are using it as a descriptive of the fact that the recognition of emptiness and luminosity is actualized as a constant reality for the yogi. Sorry about the hurriedness of my previous post... I was being accosted by a women with a severe case of BFADHD. Boyfriend Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder. That's right, this is why in Buddhism, enlightenment is not a sensation, so we don't chase after a feeling of any sort calling that liberation itself. It's not truth consciousness and bliss (Sat, Chit, Ananda), it's the intuitive interpretation of these that liberates one which is the experience of Dependent Origination, not the conceptual formula. Because one wants to be liberated as well from truth, consciousness and bliss. Though of course the side effect is being a display of the highest truth as a wisdom being, and one is fully conscious of the elements of one's life 24/7 and this is extremely blissful, but it's the calm type of bliss, equanimity.

The insight of the Buddhas teachings are beyond being limited by explanation or non-explanation. Through study of sutra one can have spontaneous insight, or by sitting with a liberated master one can have spontaneous insight without the master even saying anything. Just by opening up to the spontaneous presence as the master is the reflection of the meaning of the teaching, the actualization of the moon which the Buddhas finger is pointing to. Recognition doesn't fade if one is realized. It's spontaneous in every moment. Yes, when dependent origination is a constant intuitive experience and not a conceptual formulation. It's the realization of the "how" and the "why", so the "what" and the "who" is recognized as liberated. That's what I mean by recognizing, but it happens as well through understanding how the experience happens which is D.O. otherwise there is falling into an extreme. Because it's not the experience that liberates, it's the intuitive interpretation of it that liberates. See... Buddha-nature is emptiness, not awareness. Consciousness is effortlessly happening even in unaware modes, whether we like it or not, and paying attention is what awareness is. Awareness is a condition of consciousness. It's the recognizing ability of consciousness through the condition of knowledge or insight.

Yes, I think that's it. Of course.

Dzogchen is not a mind yoga. How is it a mind yoga? There is the mind series of teachings, but there is space series and secret oral series of teachings. Also, this O at a D is just a sensation akin to descriptions of the form Jhanas and the energy is not as maintained. Your just clinging to a passing experience. In HYT or real sexual tantra, you have to understand emptiness and thus it's not a passing experience and you learn how to transform the energy through tumo or heat practice in the belly and raise the energy through the being. We do energy work in Dzogchen and in fact the practice is mostly energy work. Vajrayana is mostly energy work. All of Tibetan Buddhism's methodology is mostly energy work, body yogas, etc. You should watch these regardless of how you feel about me. You are thinking feelings are liberation or something, or that if you feel bliss that you are liberated? That's what it seems. I've had women come to me and see them with my minds eye start raising my sexual energy on a spirit level as I lay in bed or whatever, and you start having this experience, I've had many, many full body orgasms without ejaculation with and without a partner. It is nothing compared to the bliss of the Jhanas or samadhis in formless realms and more so the peace and energy of just recognizing dependent origination and when the karmic winds are stilled and centered in the shashumna nadi. The blue light running through the spine and one is just relaxed and blissful, shining. Of course when you are doing it with a partner you can integrate a formless samadhi or jhana with the body experience and one is just staying there not climaxing, at this peek and the entire body is opened up and you see the cosmos the stars... you see the person and you see through the person and she is licking blue light from the ajna. This is all HYT (Highest Yoga Tantra) stuff. Vajrayana stuff. You have some strange mental dogmas about Tibetan Buddhism being mind yoga. That's just sutra, the stuff you can talk about. There are all sorts of methods offered in Vajrayana, it's not just a bunch of talking. You seem like a smart person, but you don't seem to be open to new information that will expand your awareness.

Right, but only if you are aware of it. One can become aware of things that one was not aware of. Like dreams still happen even if when we awake our consciousness is unaware of the fact of the activity. One can train consciousness to be aware as the impressions are still accessible. Because the habit of identifying is unconscious, the experience is still accessible. The experience was clung to on an unconscious level so is stored in the mind stream. As when you were dreaming, you were clinging to this as I and mine, even though when you awoke, because the identity with physicality is so strong, the paradigm shift broke the awareness. So, one doesn't remember the dream experience because of a lack of awareness, not a lack of consciousness. It's that dream consciousness and waking consciousness identities are too separated by a sense of duality. Ok... I'm really tired, I only got a few hours sleep today due to typing and work. I'm going to step off. Whew. Eh ok... maybe semantics. p.s. Nice debating with you Lucky.

Ok, wait... I've read this before. I remember, from a past post of yours I'm sure. Thanks Stig. Yes so sometimes Jing is I guess bindu or tigle, but contextualized as the red drop in female and white drop in male. Bindu has many different applications. Qi I guess is prana and Shen is mind. Or body, voice and mind. Or body, energy and space. I think the treatment is different, but Taoism is a different system of interpretation so. But yes... I think all major spiritual traditions have these groups of three as we are in that realm. Past, present, future, up, middle, down, left, right, center, etc. We are in the 3rd dimension. At least our brain and senses are. Not sure where my mind is sometimes?

Yes, but that mind stream might not have ever been aware. Awareness is not a given, it's a learned ability. It's a product of progression and personal evolution.

Consciousness arises in each moment along with the relativity, it is the relativity and the relativity is consciousness in and through a sentient being that is. Consciousness being aware of itself see's it's luminosity. It's not that consciousness and awareness are describing the same function. Awareness is just consciousness that is aware. The consciousness of a beetle has hardly any awareness if any at all... it's at the mercy of factors that it does not have the capacity to be aware of. In Buddhahood it's consciousness transcending itself and seeing the luminosity of things by seeing emptiness, the non-inherent nature of all things and itself. Then the elements are seen as lights and rays, and the world is as if a rainbow, one see's how the elements blend. You become aware of how all sentient beings are just an infinite mass of co-creation, from universe to universe on an infinite paradigm. No, see that's consciousness which is already a product of this cycle that is simultaneous and progressing. Awareness becomes aware as it starts to have the capacity of expansion. So different bodies of consciousness, human, monkey, etc. are all conscious, but not aware to the same degree, and don't have the capacity to be aware to the same degree through the body, not that a monkey's hidden unconscious doesn't have a human future in karmic progression or even a human past. I don't think we are on the same page on how we are defining awareness is what the problem is here Lucky. No, awareness beyond this world. Yes you can suppress the experience of awareness into a state of nothingness, so one is not aware anymore. Yes, but they are not aware of this, it's a state of consciousness where activity of all types is suppressed into potentiality. Of course, but what this means for a person is as deep as it has been applied or as aware the being is of the fact of emptiness as it is applied to as deep as one has reached experientially. Does that make sense? Established? Relatively though... I know you mean this. The critiques are that it's self centered without recognizing that your experience is originating dependent with all other beings.

No, you are not understanding me or the Buddha for that matter. You are simplifying and not seeing the organic-ness. As long as consciousness is not aware of it's emptiness/D.O. it is chained by it's history and interpretation of this history. Thats why the more selfless actions you have the more you experience emptiness, because the recognition of emptiness due to seeing the Buddhas teaching is the liberating factor. Because before the experience is contextualized and interpreted clearly, it's ultimated, so one is clinging to featureless awareness as a universal Self. As the Buddha said, before him on Earth, there were only Pratyekabuddhas, and the conditions for their level of liberation arose due to past life influence. I find that you are not seeing directly beyond the mere concepts on paper, meaning of dependent origination. It's much more subtle and far reaching than you seem to be proposing as an interpretation of it. Your interpretation of my understanding is a misinterpretation. You are ultimating awareness as some universal substance. Then when does this awareness become bound? You might as well be an Advaitin. I think you've read to much Ramana Maharishi. One can be aware of beyond the world. Awareness is due to seeing, one can experience nothingness, and no awareness, then later be aware that this happened. You can experience beyond being an experiencer through meditation. I doubt you have experienced full on the formless Jhanas. Your interpretation seems merely to be a mental projection. You should study more Nagarjuna and not think that it's merely applying to the things of awareness and not awareness as well. But... do as you wish. I feel that you are not understanding me at all. Which honestly, should not bother me... I just understand how not fatalistic my interpretation is. Maybe I'm not expressing it in a way that you can glean this understanding. But... all things and non-things are empty all the way through, and thus emptiness is empty because it's merely a condition of things and non-things which are empty. So not even awareness is established. You are liberated from this as an identity as well.

It doesn't seem that you are understanding madhyamaka prasangika. You are identifying with the entire cosmos now as your true Self? That would be eternalism. This is not dependent origination.

Indeed! This is why the Dalai Lama say's, treat all beings as if they have been at some point your mother or father, because indeed, they have.

Thank you Serene! My girlfriend needs to read this post. Thanks Serene. I try to explain that to her. She's like.. "NO GOD!! NO MEANING!!" Ahhhh... she goes on to say... so this is just a purposeless cycle? I explain that no... since you are connected to everyone, your purpose is to realize how you are connected to everyone and how best to serve this interconnectivity through the uniqueness of your own appearance. She's struggling with purpose right now. edit: I am kind of retarded when it comes to grammar. It's like a science I don't get. I find English to be the most tedious language, though it's the only one I really know. Spanish makes more sense to me though. English is so not phonetic. I say this because I had to edit some things on this post and I find I'm always having to do that.

Ok, I wonder what the original word from the pali is for these translations? Just wondering. I think of luminosity as the conscious awareness of emptiness, then everything is experienced as luminous. That's why I said that. I think of emptiness as being present, but it's recognition is defiled by our clinging to appearances as being stable and true in and of themselves, even our inner interpretations of the experienced. Ok, yes that can make sense. I'm not that up to par on the scholarly background for the two traditions of interpretation of Rangtong and Shentong. So yes... I wouldn't mind getting some Namdrol in here. Ah... ok. This is what Michaelz was saying too at some point in a historical post.

It seems like Jing-Qi-Shen stands for so many different things. I don't understand what this pertains to really?? Oh ok... I think I just have to read the thread more.

Oh wait, I didn't really understand what Jing-Qi-Shen was. Sorry. Qi would most likely correspond with prana or voice. I guess Jing would be body and shen would be mind. There are lots of groups of 3's in Vajrayana. There probably is not an exact equivalent.

Ah, you're not familiar with Vajrayana at all then? Ok, this will not differ from most religious Taoism that in order to do a practice you have to know the techniques, mantras, contemplation, visualization, breathing, body position, etc. In order to do HYT which is a technique, you need to get the transmission for the practice from a qualified master, like in Taoism. Like anything really. Except it's a bit subtler in spirituality because you are getting an energetic kind of permission from a long time lineage. As far as triumvirate... you can read this... Gankyil

Now the time needed for contemplation and silent mantra repetition will be wasted on social thinking. I'm obviously not a big fan of telepathy.

I wouldn't ask Drew. Also... If a real Master refuses to do such things, then... what does that say?

Awareness is dependent upon insight. Awareness is not inherent ultimate existence according to Rangtong view. Definitely Zhentong...

boy o' boy. What ta' do? Sorry if you felt this disruptive....