Vajrahridaya

Leaving with a resounding drum role and encore!!

I agree, Great post Mat!

After many years of practice, I did find myself in this exact predicament for a short time. I did experience a sense of peace and that it was just another process, no better or worse than any other, just... manifestation without solid designation.

It's true... to depend is against Dzogchen practice as well. But, when something is blessed during a practice and partaken of, it's different. It's integrating.

Dependent Origination understood, actually grounds a persons experience and shows that there is no transcendent, that there only is this, the ongoing experience. If you are in a position to meditate and escape out of your crown chakra into another realm, then that is part of your, "is". Otherwise, one is just escaping. Meditation and Dependent Origination helps in understanding how all levels of experiences happen, those experiences that are "other worldly" while your body is still here breathing and those experiences where you are doing things here on planet earth. Which yes, is an impermanent experience and meditation helps contextualize the cycling of life and death. But, only in order to be more fully present in whatever experience one is having, yes of course, meditative experience as well and not absoluting some level of beyond thought, non-concept, which is considered a concept in Buddhism. Formless states are still just infinite non-formed concepts and arise dependently and are not inherent, according to Buddhism.

Actually to integrate meditative experience with regular ongoing physical life, one must have the proper context for meditative experience, otherwise one is just escaping through meditation.

LOL! Looove your avatar!! No, no... getting wasted! In Dzogchen we frequently partake in wine or good beer after a ceremony. But... not enough to get one sloshed. Just a little to loosen the Rigpa.

Agreed! But, when you are cultivating. You will learn from any circumstance. But banging your head against the same wall will only make your head bleed.

Which removes clinging and assumptions, thus granting more objective responses to circumstances.

I truly do feel all gushy mushy inside bro... really... It's all good. Did you know that the main teacher of Dzogchen is Samantabhadra? You know what the means? "The All Good"... hehe. Edit........................ Different topic to general group: Yeah... Tibetan Vajrayana is soooo deep... People should read some Autobiographies. Blazing Splendor, Brilliant Moon. Many, many more. It is a culture that should not at all be judged superficially!! It's far deeper than the Dalai Lama... though the Dalai Lama is far deeper than most want to see. Ah... to each as deep as they wish to see, both externally and internally. Everyone has their process.

If you still want to cling to a mysterious self of all.. go ahead... no ones stopping you... the end game will originate dependent upon your view and realization. That's dependent origination. You have to get it intuitively. Get some good transmission. It can only make sense through direct experience transcending a self of any kind. It will be a quantum leap. Take care.

Not even close, they are like walking space, without weight, without ego. bye Edit: But with loooots of influence... because everyone wants to walk as light as air.

I'll probably catch some flack for this... but hey!! One reason within it's philosophy descriptive of reality is... We as Buddhists don't make real something eternal that stands on it's own, so we don't see the cosmos the same way as monism (one-ism) does. Which is why we don't consider a monist ideation of the liberated state as actually signifying "liberation." We see that a monist is still binding to a concept, a vast ego... an identity even if beyond concept or words, is still a limitation to the liberated experience of a Buddha. We see that even the liberated state is relative, though everlasting due to the everlasting realization of inter-dependent-co-emergence. We don't see any state of consciousness or realization as being one with a source of absolutely everything. We see the liberated consciousness as just the source of our own experience, even though we ourselves are also relative to everything else. The subtle difference is a difference to be considered, because it actually leads to an entirely different realization and thus cannot be equated with a monist (one-ist) view of the cosmos at all which we consider a bound view and not equal to the liberated view. Also... there is the concept of the creative matrix in Buddhism and this matrix is without limit and is infinite. But it's not an eternal self standing infinite. It's an infinitude of mutually dependent finites... or "infinite finites" that persist eternally without beginning or end and without a source due to mutual, interpersonal causation you could say. It's not that a Buddhist does not directly experience a unifying field of perception beyond being a perceiver that is perceiving... but, the Buddhist does not equate this even subconsciously, deep within the experiential platform of consciousness, with a source of all being. It's merely a non-substantial unity of interconnectivity, not a vast and infinite oneness that is the subject of all objects. That would not be considered liberation from the perspective of a Buddha. That would merely be a very subtle, but delusional identification with an experience that originates dependent upon seeing through phenomena, where the consciousness expands past perceived limitations. Even this consciousness that experiences this sense of connection with everything, beyond everything is also considered a phenomena and is empty of inherent, independent reality. Yet persists for as long as the realization persists, which for a Buddha is without beginning nor end. This subtle difference is an important difference that makes Buddhism transcendent of monism, or "there is only" one-ism. Take care and have a wonderful night/day!! p.s. Because of this, it is a philosophy that see's through itself completely without remainder. Thus a Buddha is considered a "thus gone one" or a Tathagata. Samantabhadra and Samantabhadri: A symbol in Dzogchen which depicts in physical form the union of wisdom and method or realization and phenomena.

I was trying to set you up for a rebuttal like, "Your right! My capacity is Taoist, and I'm content with that." Which would fizzle out any sort of negativity in the statement. But... I do apologize.

Marble, I apologize for this statement, it was harsh. Sincerely... your brother in higher learning. VH.

I do, because their teachings are all over the internet. Dwai here and Nisargadatta's students as well as books are all over the internet. Because of Nisargadatta's conclusions, as well as Dwai's... I know that they don't have the same realization as the Bodhi of the Buddha's, even intellectually much less experientially.

What's real? I never insulted you. You just took me saying that you don't know because of this or that excuse as an insult. experiential excuse for ignorance or intellectual excuse for ignorance is not an insult. It's saying that you don't know because you can't put it together intellectually or experience that as such in a way to de-mystify it... as of yet. That's not an insult.

The Buddha has no control over your karma, the Buddha can only influence your mind to make the right steps with your karma.

Actually. I have said this many, many times here. It goes to show how selective one's reading is. But, it doesn't take seeing D.O. to have a good future life. It just takes virtue. Seeing D.O. guarantees liberation in a few lives though.

Actually I've known current great masters who saw their future death coming. It's no fairy tale. As long as you are trapped in body consciousness, even while alive... you won't evolve past the 5 senses. But... I guess that's your comfort zone.

Yes, you should read Graceful Exits, you would be surprised!

Actually, in Buddhism, due to the physical challenges that women have to undertake as being a women in our society. In Tantra, it's considered more beneficial to be a women Buddha. But, the problem is, is that due to the societal and physical obstacles... it doesn't happen nearly as often as it does with men. As it's easier for men to just up and leave popular consensus then it is for women.

You didn't have to take that as an insult. You could be like... "Your right V. I don't have the capacity to be as stupid and assumptive as you are." You know?

I feel it's you who needs to relax and not take things so personally. Of course there are going to be those who you will think are delusional on these boards. That doesn't mean they are though. I would hope that as a good Taoist you question yourself a bit more and humble yourself more to the possibility that your ideas and limitations of experience are merely that. There is no void. Do you think emptiness is pointing to a void?

Yes indeed.