Vajrahridaya

The problem here is taking things at face value, as in the words that appear on this board coming from people that you have never met in person. The inability to accept these words as true, if it fly's in the face of one's own experience? Is of course understandable. It's hard to be flexible and perceive beyond one's own experientially remembered limitations. Please listen to what that means. It means that you remember certain experiences on a conscious level, and these are your limited perceptions of reality. You conceive of this as being "reality"... so you can't conceive that others have transcended these limitations in their own reality due to their own experience and effort given towards their own self consciousness discovery. But the fact remains... there is more in heaven and earth that is dreampt of in your current reference for experiential reality. There are actually those people that gave not only this life, but lifetimes... to the experience of spirituality and meditation and have reaped the fruit of it, to one degree or another. We do exist... We do. These are NOT just words. They do reference direct experiencing and insight into the nature of all things. The Buddha was not a historical figure that spoke lies about things. He was an example of our true human potentiality outside of popular consensus, plane and simple.

Sure, as a metaphor. We are all the God of all gods! But, God refers to one thing, definably. Look it up! God is considered a will behind all experiential phenomena. Buddhism says that all experiences are based on passed experiences and interpretations conditioned by experiences endlessly. Thus nothing stands on it's own, thus... emptiness. No source that is true and stable. Other than, that all beings that exist, exist now, infinitely. But, none of them have any stable essence. Thus only endless change. There is no subunit of a single unit. You are thinking that all is one, but no... it's many. I actually can. That something to bang is the end of the last crunch. Just potentiality based on how the last causation played out. Please read some Myriad Worlds Get an idea of what your trying to debate against. Because it feels like I'm trying to train someone in Elementary school. No, that's stating that there is one thing, that all things come from. When I'm stating that Buddhism states, that all things come from all things. Not one thing. No, I just think you need to meditate more and study more. Forget concepts for a while and sit on the cushion. No, it's the experiential reference through word form of dependent origination without static essence. These are not just words. They are pointing to an experiential example emplaced/enlodged in the fact that you exist. Meditate on your existence. I have to ask... how much time have you given to actual meditation without concept? Because you don't get it doesn't make it not true. See some humility in yourself. I don't lie to myself. I'm ready to admit if I'm wrong if someone can point that out. If so.. I'll admit it. I'm always wrong if it's spoken anyway simply due to the paradox of words. dependent origination/emptiness is non-paradoxical though. It's sideways, not this/that, up'down, mirror/reflection. It's deeper than that. It is experiential, but can illumine your logic bone if you let it.

Please go sit on the cushion for a long time. With sincere devotion, contemplating infinite regress along with it. You'll have some experiences that reveal... I've experienced ALL of them. So... that's how I conclude that the Buddha is right.

No your just not understanding the meaning of the words as they apply contextually. There is no source. Think sideways... not top down. Not Alpha and Omega. That's a top down view. Or back to front, or start to end. Buddhism is sideways... or no way's. Always here and now. Not from there to here, to over there. Or, not from this to that. Buddhist philosophy is basically saying that all that is here now is based on endless causation without a source. No source! Unless you want to contextualize the source as your consciousness, then that's your source, but that also has endless causation linked with everything else. Thus emptiness... meaning nothing stands on it's own. Not even the cosmos. There is no eternal Tao, unless one wants to define that as endless change. But, that would negate some of the Tao De Ching quotes. Unless it's merely a language barrier? But saying something exists beyond the beginning, beyond concept, that is whole and complete that is the mother of all things, is saying that it's the reality of all things. Thus... reifying one thing, and not seeing infinite regress.

Don't think of the co-creative matrix as a whole, but merely parts with resource with no beginning as in beginningless causation. If you can think beyond beginning. As in the big bang that caused this was caused by the end of the last, and the last was caused by the beginning of the last caused by the end of before that... on and on. Then you have a slight intellectual grasp of dependent origination. No beginning. And no... infinite regression is the answer, not the problem. To you, not to me. Ah... dependent origination/emptiness at work again... eh? If you could apply that to everything on an experiential level endlessly? It has experiential correlation. Go sit on a cushion for a while and get some realization of emptiness. Sheesh!! Don't expect words to do all the work for you!! Goodness!

LOL! That's fine, just site me though... you know, my real name. As... If I use it later in school, I don't want to be considered a plagiarist as you could become a famous Buddhist teacher in the future.

Thank you for educating me with your articles! To my knowledge as well. Though Vasistha's Yoga talks about other world systems, it doesn't really get into what traditions of spirituality exist in them.

The philosophy can be integrated with any technique or method, action or thought, but not any over-all interpretation of the cosmos. Whatever everyone wants to do. I was just sharing something I wrote for someone for anyone who it might have benefited. p.s. I'm going to go post it in E-Sangha.

The difference in interpreting what happens with an enlightened being and how the cosmos works reveals differences in interpreting non-conceptual realization. Sure, but that's a freak accident, like a 2 legged man being born in a tribe of one legged people due to past life karmas. If that state of realization will last beyond crunch time, during the end of the cosmic eon where all believer's in monist realization are re-absorbed into the recycling, or the non-conceptual ground that is the recycling machine, then that person has a Buddhist realization, sees infinite regress, non-substantial interdependence and has achieved the goal of the contemplative and is a Buddha. It doesn't matter how they teach for beings that need crutches along the way. It's just that Buddhism is the clearest expression of what the enlightened state actually is and what it means to be enlightened, as well as what happens to the cosmos and how it ticks. Individuals have propensity that is a result from previous lives. As the Buddha said, his Bodhisattvas would manifest in other spiritual traditions to influence beings. All spiritual traditions especially on a very mystical level are influenced by Buddhism. As when the Buddhas tradition was at it's hight, it was spread quite far around the world. You can see this hand of influence in every tradition. Yes, either she is saying, "I have no self and only God has Self" or, "There is no-self and the cosmos is without primal cause, but beings need this teaching in order to evolve, so I will play this game without attachment for the benefit of these beings in need." Otherwise, yes... they are incompatible realizations. As one leads to re-absorption at the end of the cosmic eon and future recycling in the next cosmic expression and the other as in Buddhist, does not. Not for me, if she's seeing dependent origination on a beginningless and endless scale without static substance, then her realization is true, if not, then it's one of those no-self is the Self paradoxes that Monist philosophy does to the interpretation of experience. The idea of there is a God to all this is not compatible as a validating concept, but as a metaphor, I still say, "God Bless". But, in my being I interpret "God" as meaning, "we" as the co-creative endless matrix of interconnected sentient beings that make up the cosmos. That the "bless" just be that persons manifestation of "good" karmas as in may he or she experience the fruit of beneficial intentions quickly and experience the diminishing of his or her non-beneficial karmas. It's not easy, because one can read about it and understand it to a certain degree intellectually, but to experience it through deep uprooting of the ego type of methodology that is Buddhisms core, is different. Thank you! I don't think so... that is saying a lot. If there is one at the beginning, then comes 2... etc. The realization is different. Buddhism is not a piece that comes under it. As the Buddha said, during his time on Earth, there was no other with the same realization. Which is why he is considered a wheel turning Buddha that starts the wheel of the Dharma going because it had died and was non-existent at the time of such a Buddhas coming to the Earth.

Sure, as a wording... But, if Taoist realization as a whole, not talking about special individuals which exist anywhere at anytime, but as a spiritual tradition as a whole, if the realization were the same, so the cosmology would also be the same. I have not found that to be so.

There are plenty of Buddhists that don't understand the nuances of Buddhist realization. Also, there are certain stages of realization where one can equate the word form expressions of such realization with other paths. But when it comes down to it, Buddhism is the only path with infinite regress as a premise and non-substantial interconnectivity as a realization. All other paths posit a beginning and a supreme source that is either intelligent on it's own, self caused or without cause that all things spring from and that all things return to at the end of the cosmic eon or universal expansion and contraction or that all things are one substance with, even if said to be beyond concept or being and non-being. So... The conclusion and thus realization is indeed different. p.s. it's not so much the experience which differs which is concept free, but the experiential interpretation of the experience changes with Buddha Bodhi realization making for a more "grounded" and "integrated" experience of the experience. Not to mention the entire cosmology shifts to beginningless without a primal ego or identity of any sort.

Indeed! It's not that these paths are not "good" paths leading to higher planes of existence and a long refuge from suffering and disease, even for eons. Yet, they are not permanent realizations if the Bodhi of the Buddhas is not realized. This is a very specific realization that is very subtle and deep, it's neither complex nor simple. But is dependently originated and empty of inherent existence. I appreciate your contribution ngtest.

LOL! Oh man... now I know your lying!!?? Or joking! I hope...? Well that's good. I hope my story gave you a chuckle. LOL! That probably happened to me actually... some time... long ago.

Only when one sees Earth and all elements as equal with space does one feel truly relaxed and "grounded". Where even noises and thoughts are experienced as empty silence, quiescent and without blemishing equanimity with the relaxation of the body and mind that thinks it's thoughts. It's like an empty wholeness, and constant exuberance where any feeling can be experienced both from within and externally, without any sense of clinging or ultimating density. Like a constant bubbling without a hard center. One feels strong, but light, heavy but without roots, or with roots that have no center, or a center that is everywhere... It is spoken of as bliss, and endlessly energetic. All poetic metaphors, but true as well.

It doesn't matter what you say Stigweard... because, Reify means to consider real. So yes, Taoists do in fact reify "True Nature" as "The Tao". I will quote from one of your scriptures to prove that point. Daodejing 道德经: The book does not specifically define what the Tao is, as a matter of principle. Fundamentally, Tao is undefinable, unlimited, and unnamable. There was something undefined and complete, existing before Heaven and Earth. How still it was, how formless, standing alone and undergoing no change, reaching everywhere with no danger of being exhausted. It may be regarded as the mother of all things. Truthfully it has no name, but I call it Tao (TTC, chapter 25) However, there are characteristics of Tao that are commonly noted and used to describe its functioning, particularly as guidelines for practicing De. Tao is undifferentiated All distinctions are actually relative comparisons bound together by their mutual reference. Thus (chapter 2) there is no such thing as 'long' except by comparison to 'short' and vice-versa; there is no such thing as 'being' except by comparison to 'non-being'. Because Tao itself has no shape or size, all comparisons fall within it, so there can never be 'real' differences. Often this is used to suggest a neutral, giving attitude - see TTC chapter 49. 道可道，非常道。 (Tao (way or path) can be said, not usual way) "The Way that can be described is not the true Way." 名可名，非常名。 (names can be named, not usual names) "The Name that can be named is not the constant Name." It doesn't matter how non-conceptual you make the experiential reference that the concept Tao is pointing to. It's still considered a homogeneous platform for all reality. Thus is a monist view of cosmos. As is defined in the bolded printing above. Thus Buddhist realization or the realization of a Buddha is thus, transcendent of Taoist Cosmology. On a level that transcends concepts. The difference is so subtle, not even non-concepts "the Tao" can go there. Take care!! Remember not to take anything personally.

If that's the only goal of your spirituality and if you think that's the end all be all of Taoism? Then that's pretty shallow. I'll be the one... to... uh... I just had to let you know... you're swimming in the baby pool of spiritual goals. Or you're doing the doggy paddle in a pond made of your concepts next to the ocean of endless liberation. Anyway... thought someone should tell you in case you were thinking that you were being deep or something. Kind of like that time you were trying to talk to that girl? You had a booger on your shirt from when you blew your nose... one escaped your tissue and squirted onto your collar. The girl saw it and was turned off right away... you wondered "Why? I threw my best game at her and wore my best cologne." Later on you went to the bathroom and you looked in the mirror and you saw how handsome you were. Then you looked down to pop your collar and ease the pain with a fresh dose of self confidence. Aaaaand low and behold! There... on your collar... a fresh large, sticky snot ball that could not be mistaken for anything other than a snot ball. You were so pissed off and thoroughly embarrassed. You so wished that one of your friends would have told you about it, but... they were all too scared to tell you because of your possible reaction. But, my friend... I am here, a stranger over the internet to help you out and let you know... Get a deeper concept about spirituality... please! Your embarrassing yourself.

No they are not, they are specific systems of study and practice... and I mean specific, not piled together, all are of the same sloppy serving of mashed potatoes. All this New Age BS... "don't study the words of the Buddhas because religious teachings are bad!", "all religions are one!", or "all religions are bad because Christianity is stupid!", "Tao and Zen are just words." What an epidemic of over simplification! Mush that brain power why don't you! How more epidermic can one be!? LeonBasin, You don't have to go all the way to the far East to get a good experience of Vipassana. But if you can actually afford to do that, unlike most people I know, then most definitely do that. But there are free or by donation silent 10 day or longer Vipassana retreats all over the states and I'm sure Europe too. Unless of course you live in the far East already, then go, go, go. Vipassana is to be experienced first hand, not read about it, but after experiencing, one should read the profound logic of the Buddhas as your mind will be fresh and open after a retreat.

There are lots of Archaeological finds that counter popularly accepted consensus. I've seen pictures of giant femur bones and skulls from people long, long ago that were about 12 to even over 20 feet tall. Who knows? What we've been fed in school has always been shabby, at least in the states. I'm sure it's worse in 3rd world countries but maybe better in Europe?

That's right, it's not quantity but quality. p.s. I've heard that said about lovers once, but I think it fits here too!

That could very well be it. I'm just saying that something happened there and they probably equated the meteor with a "weapon of the gods" or something?

The findings are true, they are there, it's not made up. Recordings in the Mahabharata are being proved one by one as historical fact. I for one keep an open mind. It seems far fetched granted, but impossible? I don't think so.

Nope, they are too. But both are atrocities. That doesn't excuse the fact because karma can be nullified by compassion. p.s. If I actually did say "those Iraqi's" in the tone that you're suggesting, then shame on me.