Vajrahridaya

That's merely your assumption. We can't make a safe assumption either way. So it's a mute point. The man talked about cycles, circles, and his understanding was very spherical. So, I'd guess the opposite. That's just me though.

I think certain surviving Taoist lineages might actually reach the same state as realized in Dzogchen/Mahamudra? I've said many times that it's probably the most intermingle-able with Buddhism. As it already has done so.

p.s. Well, um. Aaaaahhhhhhuuuuuuummmmmmmmm?

You would have to give more time to it than passive scanning in order to learn something from anything stated. p.s. This might just be a long shot, and this probably doesn't apply to everyone, but all these Taoists saying that we're some dogmatic Buddhists, might just be dogmatic Taoists... ???

Exactly! Which is why, even in the higher yanas and their experiential elaborations, one cannot forget the meaning of the 12 links. Everything does not arise from a non-dual supreme consciousness as an inherent substratum. It's ALL dependently originated, including Rigpa which transcends the concept of dependent origination, but is itself arisen dependent upon insight or the influence of insight of dependent originations' emptiness through a master who has seen thus directly. Which is why Norbu say's one needs to master Nagarjunas' explanations of emptiness, not only conceptually, but... experientially. If one is caught in it on merely the conceptual level, then the experience of rigpa will arise and one will not have the mental context in order to understand what one is experiencing. This seems to happen a lot, but it's better than not experiencing it at all, which I think is what Norbu's intention is to begin with. Just connect people to the experience, regardless of whether they understand it or not.

Or referencing without clinging to it as ultimate, but merely many instances of "relative self" manifesting cosmic potential.

I agree, this, "Placidity" or what I've called malleability happens due to the fact of emptiness, that there is no discernible self in anything other than attachments, clinging's, etc. This power manifested through the other side of the brain that was working due to various secondary conditions of working through human DNA, even if physiologically incomplete, it completed itself through longing to do so. The primary conditions of "self" clinging had to manifest through the secondary conditions of human DNA in these examples. Or for a Buddha, these conditions are flipped into expressions of connecting to the suffering with wisdom based upon knowing directly. As how can you know how to connect without actually having been there, done that, been through it?

As in, bodily, it's a product of genetics, DNA, food, and mentally, a product of both the previous and parental conditioning, social conditioning, the conditions of what one has exposed oneself to. As in, one can't find an actual singular point of reference that truly defines oneself, even within the elements, atomic particles, and quantum particles that make up your body.

But, that's only relative to all the other elements involved external to that point of conditioned arising. Which of course you know.

Patience is key. During a time I was doing very intense physical yoga and sitting meditation, I was celibate without masturbation, without watching tv, movies, etc. I didn't look at a women below her eyes. The first month I had two wet dreams, the second, 1. After that, none. Slowly my sense of sexual desire became only spiritual desire, and the desire to deepen my states of bliss and love for all sentient beings. After a few months, the only thought of sex I had, was the word "sex" would arise in my mind, but it would have no feeling of outward turning lust anymore. Sometimes when I sat for practice, I'd get powerful erections, but the energy would feel contained, internalized, a feeling of blessings instead of a need to go stick it in someone. LOL! It takes time and practice, patience and resilience.

I forgot to mention, that you take your partner there as well, or ideally, she's an experienced practitioner and she takes you there as well. It's not a selfish experience.

Yes, in as much as habit patterns of endless groups of sentient beings manipulate matter on levels that are even subatomic on the level of thought, feeling, intention, etc. Since beginningless time. I'm speaking of influence of both Buddhas and Samsarins including powerful gods, animals, bugs. Sure, but they are intermingled, not inherently separate, not inherently one either.

Dude, your heart is so uptight man. I don't go into every discussion, many times I just read without saying anything, many times agreeing or disagreeing but without the inspiration to say either. Actually if you read above... "'Taoist Discussion' Transcendent, mundane, talking through the middle. Taoist, Buddhist, Non-sectarian cultivation discussion" So, ! Nah, nah!

Yes, sure, but both are equally empty and not self... equally, beyond time, process and progress, as all that which was stated that it was beyond. Yes, all equally empty of inherent existence. You've got it.

By the way ralis, thanks for the opportunity for clarification.

I forgot what you quoted. No, not paradox, I mean that all our little levels of clinging are based upon the supreme clinging of "self identity". No paradox talking here.

It means that I'm trying to get the point across where one can understand that one's personal experiences of consciousness through unconscious (deep sleep) subconscious (dream sleep) and conscious living is already poised for the experience of Buddhahood, it's just flipping the state of non-recognition into recognition. Marigpa into Rigpa. Rigpa is... Dharmakaya Sambogakaya Nirmanakaya All experienced as a unity. I don't much care about the name of the thread, it doesn't effect me either way. No ralis, it confuses you, but not everyone. I'm sorry that it confuses you. Just go sit over there in your supreme non-conceptual state of awareness, you're so formless ralis, so brilliant, you cut through all my fanatical scholarly prose... oh ralis, if only I could touch the level of your awareness. Is that what you want from me ralis? For me to recognize how transcendent of my expressions you are? Should everyone recognize this as well? Is this what this 2+ years, nearly 3 years of shutting down our Buddhist discussion on this board which invites us to be here has been about? Ralis, your recognition of heart-mind is supreme!! It's beyond the scriptures and the discussions from various siddha masters! It's awesome man, I bow to it. It's funny how you think yourself to be beyond the many elaborations as expressed by Norbu. You should read his teachings more, not just public books.

It's not from primordial awareness, it's intermingled on a formless level with primordial awareness as radiance's and clear light. The alayavijnana is on such a level that they are not experienced as separate on such a dense level as this. Both awareness and the elements have no point of arising from where one can say, "here" as there is no beginning of cycles both personally and inter-personally as universe or inter-dimensional cosmos. This realization is experienced as a mass of bliss without beginning nor end! Even if one does not recognize emptiness, which is where the designation of "original Self" comes from for most traditions that experience this without recognition of the experiences d.o. and emptiness. That all of Samsara is just a mass of bliss, concepts don't arise of absolute differentiation anymore, just practical differentiation. This is why I say the difference between various traditions can be non-conceptual and formless, very subtle indeed. As most equate this experience with proof of independent origination/consciousness as supreme, identifying with the key and missing the emptying of the boat which is the lock! Anyway... Just like Samkhya philosophy's dualism of purusha (spirit/awareness) and prakriti (matter) is merely a practical designation of separation for the sake of the samsarin that needs to invert awareness towards itself nature as spirit away from the sense gates. These are not absolute designations of separation of course. As the direct cognition of emptiness allows the awareness to experience all things and awareness' or sentient beings as impersonal (not one but not separate either, beyond these designations) and inter-connected as well as separate simultaneously.

Yes, well... Maybe I know what you're talking about, as I'm expressing this through the mind and body onto this hardened element of computer generated imaging. So... when you experience formless stages of Samadhi, or you experience going directly to heaven realms, you'll feel that these places are beyond mind and matter in the sense that you are used to experiencing them through the brain. This will be mind blowing! But really, you are only expanding your experiential understanding of the nature of mind and matter into dimensions that are not as dense as this one. So... yes and no would be my answer as it all depends upon how one personally contextualizes the concept of mind and matter experientially.

Nope sorry, it was Vasubhandu, Asangas brother.

I agree! I think it was Asanga who said that Alayvijnana is both referring to individual seeds of mind stream as well as universal groups of mind stream seeds at the same time, making it both personal and interpersonal, while it's emptiness makes it impersonal which only Buddhas fully realize, thus being free from the universe while in it. Samsara is Nirvana... weeeeeeeeee!

Yup. And beyond mind is empty of inherent existence as well.

Alayvijnana (storehouse consciousness, personal unconscious as an attempt at a Western equivalent) does not suggest eternalism. It suggests that ones mind streams' basis is an unconscious mixture of elemental radiance's and all types of clinging's based on identity clinging without beginning on a formless level, that one can empty into dharmakaya realization. Thus flipping these impressions of bondage into impressions of liberated activity of blissful energy (sambogakaya, subconscious, as an attempt at a Western equivalent) and conceptual elaboration through the nirmanakaya (body of expression, conscious expression, though of course a Buddha is conscious of all three on a non-dualistic level) by realizing directly the nature of one's Alayavijnana into Dharmakaya. One can speak of this in terms of both transformation (tantra) and self liberation (Dzogchen or whatever equivalent in Taoism I think it's Wu Wei?). Does that make any sense to anyone other than me? I'm trying.

Right guys, omniscience in Buddhism, which is different from monotheism, is that a Buddha is able to know the nature of all things directly, always, but not necessarily every single particular that ever was and ever will be simultaneously. Though, a Buddha definitely has a far larger scope of access towards that theistically defined type of omniscience than the vast majority of human beings just by directly knowing the nature of things and awareness. The Buddha describes this in degrees based upon how deeply one knows one's own personal lineage of information. He say's that one may know the lives one has had in this cosmic aeon, then the previous and previous to that, etc. etc. up to a certain amount, but really, it's not about that, it's about knowing directly the nature of things right now that gives access to other siddhis (so called super "natural" powers).

It's not merely talk. Right on. p.s. For Aaron, YES!! Go GIH GO!! G.o.l.d.i.s.h.e.a.v.y. WHAT'S THAT SPELL!!!??? GOLDISHEAVY!!!