Vajrahridaya

I have a 163 IQ... where do you stand?

We merely talk about the special breed that come from a truly realized standard of Tantric practice, not the common folk. Having Vajrayana as the national religion is NOT common. It is NOT like having Native American shamanism as ones national tradition and it's not like having Christian puritanicalism as ones conditioned influence. For someone that thinks he's so smart, you can be pretty lack luster in your interpretation of things. You can project all the ignorance that you want. But, you have not read the autobiographies of the very many realized practitioners of this path you so wish to demean into your state of mind. You also don't have memories of having been Tibetan prier to the Chinese invasion. You dear fellow, have no idea what you're on about! Also, generally speaking, the way you experience Tibetans from Tibet directly, is not at all like the way some others might experience them, simply due to the level of conditioned projectioning that you do. Also, the way they've had to acclimatize to this Western culture is just as you would have to acclimatize to their culture, which would not take long, especially for someone as smart and Mensa'd as yourself. Wow, you are unbelievable. Knock, knock!!

Yup!

Actually Zen is lacking in practice according to Indian Buddhism. Zen is too caught up in Jhana absorption, merely leading to higher rebirth and not Buddhahood, in most instances, not in all, and not enough study of the "right view" (first of the 8 fold path, the most important seed) as well as not enough integral practices of the yogic tradition. Idealizing stillness does not lead to Buddhahood, but merely formless but blissful absorption at the end of a cosmic aeon. It does lead to virtue and the expansive mind states, but it doesn't lead to the cutting through which the Buddha intentioned the "right view" of emptiness and dependent origination for. In my opinion, Zen studies too little and absorbs the mind too much in formless states. Zen is too stripped in my opinion and lacks the deepening and integrating practices that took birth in India.

This joy is a conditional thing, it's succumbing to comfort zones, and if my expressions push buttons and the limits of conditional comfort zones? Then so be it, it's for the better. You play your role and I'll play mine. Buddhist boards do not have a hard time with me at all and I say the exact same things, sometimes verbatim. It's interesting to see the different subjective reactions.

Emptiness according to the Buddha has nothing to do with being without thought. Seeing through thought as it occurs, is what emptiness means in Buddhas expressions. Of course, stilling the mind is part of the practice, but it's merely part of the practice. It's not the end all be all of the meaning. Zen practitioners seem to cling to this idea of emptiness as being synonymous with a void, like an empty jar? This is what I have come to see at least.

I guess whatever protects you from humbling down instead of thinking you know something that you clearly don't. p.s. I can quote endless texts in use to support my view, that's just life. You think you know something, I think you do not, as you think I do not. Just check yourself is all. I obviously can't check a person who finds himself uncheckable.

May your Sahasarara and Anahata be open.

Say's the stone to the lake.

I spent lifetimes, of which I remember. Who are you? Your statements do not reflect profound realization, instead, they reflect pride of age, sadly.

It's a good calling! It is scary though... of course!

I think understanding boundaries, whatever that means in whatever situation, is part of becoming fully enlightened though.

To a degree that is almost too intimate to stay within the generally accepted bounds of rational reality. To experience how much so, directly, can lead to utter insanity... I know, I've been on that edge before. Yes, it can be very scary, but if you have a healthy and strong sense of contemplation, are not doing drugs, and are studying sacred texts and reading reassuring words of great beings, and connected to a living lineage of masters... you will be fine. At least, I think I'm mostly fine? Sometimes I think I scare people when I meet them with how fine and open about everything I am. I think people are really used to confined boundaries. I don't understand them anymore. I feel intimately that everyone is my brethren, my very own being. I really love people! Not that I don't get angry at them either though... I do, and not on some enlightened level either. I'm not a Buddha.

Yes, it wasn't for prolonged periods of time, it was like a split nano second or something (to regular physically perceived time), but during that split nano second I would gather vast amounts of information about that particular persons level of perception and the conditions that brought that upon. I mean, I, as I perceive myself would literally not be located in my body/brain complex anymore and would be in theirs, literally! Yes, scary at first. It doesn't happen so much anymore... I don't meditate too much anymore either, which is probably why. I still have some extra sensory perception happening all the time, but it's not so intense and visceral and I have the choice to ignore it and just sit in my karmic shell for the sake of comfort and conformed sanity. I think to actually become a full blown Buddha one has to go through all sorts of crazy shit! Oh no, due to the fact of emptiness, you can experience the confluence of two unique streams into a single river, but if you get lost in that as an excuse for a primal undifferentiated Self, then that would be off the mark... according to Buddhas teachings at least. But yes, as one progresses through the jhanas, this type of stuff happens. I've also experienced the merging of mind streams during Sex with a partner (She is a Tantric Shaivite with active kundalini, prier to my wife), and even experienced the big bang during intercourse, quite viscerally and incredibly, then more into the big bang afterwards, but... anyway. That's another story. I agree with both Gold and Xabir at the same time. We do have unique and separate mind streams, but at the same time, they're interpersonal and impersonal, as well as completely empty of any type of reference whatsoever. I think when you get to a level of alayavijnana (storehouse consciousness), that stuff starts happening, which is within the formless states of samadhi/jhana/dhyana. Yes and no. It's hard to encapsulate the experience through concepts after it's occurrence. It happens on such a different level than the level of perception it takes to type and communicate on a rational and logical level. I really don't know, honestly. I think that type of referencing just doesn't make sense on that level of inter-relational-perception?

Of course not, but they are different, within a different context which as a Westerner you would not be able to understand unless you did tons of work to decondition your cultural biases, like they would have to do as well to see you as you are, and some are successful. Wow, there are so many wise, wise Tibetan Masters. YAY!! We still have access to them! I hope the tradition continues. p.s. Oh yeah, and Chinese Taoist Masters like Wang Liping as well!! Though I don't understand why he charges so much.

I disagree, to an extent. I've experienced literally seeing through another persons eyes, physical and mental conditionings before. Not on purpose mind you. It just happened spontaneously through meditation, after that it just started happening spontaneously upon meeting people, it was a little scary for a while there actually and I thought I was going crazy, but I got grounded again... I think? But, it was very real and visceral, even feeling the other persons body feelings. I think our mind stream, though personal to a degree is also interpersonal and impersonal as well.

EXACTLY!!! I for one have no freakin' doubt!! Though, it's not to the point of where i see these things as ordinary, like a Buddha would, but I know with this depth of experience, whatever that is, and whatever depth of understanding, that the illusion of solidity is penetrable, directly! I also feel very deeply that the human capacity of perception and experience is not limited to the closed environment, scientific findings as recorded and widely accepted up to this century. There are most definitely (X-Files) of unexplainable phenomena, like faith healing for one of the more mundane ones. Also, even videos of people doing amazing, extra-ordinary things, like a yogi taking long fencing swords through the body and healing immediately without blood, but the video gets thrown away in a vault somewhere. Anyway... Yes... Stephen Batchelar is attempting to reconcile his Western conditioning with Buddhist reasoning, but I really hope that trend does not become staple. There is a prediction somewhere in a Mahayana text which states that Buddhism becomes allocated to mere intellectual musings, and yogic achievements disintegrate. With such a dense language as English as the first language of the Earth, and popular cultural distractions through this computer age... this seems quite possible! The age of large amounts of people meditating and doing yogic practices for hours and hours per day is decreasing, even in the East. In some of old Europe, the mystics did such things as well and attained incredible states of mind and body. Many of the traditional Catholic Saints, as well as the Desert Fathers and the Eastern Orthodox Saints attained amazing powers of perception and physical pliability.

Not the ability necessarily but the circumstance of display, yes. Especially for enlightened beings who are so far beyond conventional thought projections about reality, that so called miracles and regular life are not dichotomized. Of course, you'll hear, especially when talking to Taoist adepts from the mountains of China, like Wang Liping, or Tibetan adepts like Garchen Rinpoche, tons of stories of miraculous events. Also my own Rinpoche, Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche, with a great sense of honesty, innocence and a lack of pretense, shares stories of miraculous things that he has witnessed. I mean, both of his main teachers attained the Jalus (Rainbow Body). That alone is utterly incredible. But when you read "Blazing Splendor" (and other Tibetan Master Autobiographies), Tulku Orgen Rinpoche talks about meeting wandering mendicant yogis in Tibet who perform really strange things, like for instance, one of the many he mentions is sparking up a dead body to carry the yogis things during travel through consciousness projection. I mean... really far out stuff. I've personally seen enough with well known Masters from far away lands and witnessed enough in meditation to consider their reality and not call it mere hokus pokus. But yes, it would be very difficult for one to perform such extra ordinary feats in front of a large audience of dense minded people, as our mind does create our reality in an inter-subjective manor. The state of mind of an enlightened being is far beyond our general level of perception, but it manifests in front of us according to the degree of our reception.

By this statement, clearly you've not gone beyond the first couple Jhanas. I would recommend a regular and intense meditation practice that is consistent and increases in time spent over many years. But, whatever, you'll probably defend your conceptual illusion some more. Just speaking on years of experience with you ralis. I do appreciate your previous post though, and I do agree! English is quite dense. I prefer sanskrit.

Just go deeper than the first couple of Jhanas in meditation is all. That wasn't enough for me and it wasn't enough for the Buddha either. Live more intensely, study yourself more intensely!! Meditate with more focus, or more letting go, contentment in the first couple of jhanas can be a trap! Well... if you wish to know the truth of things that is.

Pre-script: By the way, sorry for the assumptions, but I wouldn't call you Zen, though I might call you Zen curious, LOL. Science has explained away other dimensions of existence? Really? Where!? I don't have blind faith either Twinner, I also need proof. I believe in other dimensions of existence, both lower vibration and higher vibration based upon direct experiencing through intense yogic discipline. I also don't limit human perception to the 5 senses, based upon experience in yogic perception. Anyway... take care! I think my view on this subject has been summed up already.

That's why there are also symbols like yantras, there are also yogic techniques and visualizations that help a person internally transcend conceptual boundaries. When these boundaries have been transcended to one degree or another, one may read the words of a Buddha as limited though they may appear due to being merely "primitive linguistic" symbols. The inner experience of them, which they are pointing to will not be limited by the appearance of the symbol.

Due to appearing in and through this dimension and realm, of course the transcendent mind of a Buddha will appear limited by such rules of this dimension to the vast majority of beings, again, simply due to inter-connected karmic connections. Though what one person sees a Buddha do or be may not be what another person sees, simply due to cracks in the karmic shell. Also, I'm familiar with Daniel Ingram and think he's cool, but I don't think he's the end all be all. You should read some Autobiographies from some of the mystics that come from far away lands. They may blow your mind, as they lived in places where people weren't limited by popular concepts about reality. There are certain miraculous powers that Buddhas do posses. They are no big deal for a Buddha, as what is super ordinary to normal people, is quite ordinary for a Buddha, or even a high level Bodhisattva. But, there are definitely certain powers of perception and abilities that awaken as one traverses deeper through the layers of personal consciousness through yogic practice. Just because you haven't experienced it, or you haven't seen it for yourself, doesn't mean it can't and doesn't exist. Be open! A lot of Westerners are interpreting Buddhism through the scope of a limited perception of human capacity. You might like to read, "Blazing Splendor." http://www.amazon.com/Blazing-Splendor-Memoirs-Urgyen-Rinpoche/dp/9627341568