Vajrahridaya

Ah, yes this can happen. Not every Tibetan Lama deserves the title. I'm glad that you did find some help though in a way that works with your particular psychological sensibilities. It seems that you did find help at least.

I do, because if you have a genuine lineage of masters as a guide and you follow the guidance with trust, you will be fine. I've seen this truth over and over again. Most of these problems happen due to pride and a deeply held lack of trust, which is part of the Western culture of hyper individualism. Many here hate the idea of having a Guru or surrendering to a guide who is vastly more experienced and far more perceptive of the subtle occurrences surrounding such awakening. This seems very much to be a more Western phenomena than an Eastern one, these kundalini syndromes. Gopi Krishna is a very rare Easterner and though he genuinely looked for a guide, he happened to be stuck where he was and honestly couldn't find one. This doesn't happen for most people in the East. Though of course, one should be sure about the Teacher or Master one is surrendering to, because if one does so to the wrong person, it can be disastrous.

That is in fact some peoples experience. Not so much a pet, but warm and beautiful, under the guidance of a living master.

It can be very bad if you don't follow the guidance of a master. When I follow the guidance of my Rinpoche, everything is wonderful and fine, and if I don't, everything sucks. Surrender has nothing to do with manipulation.

I know, it's hard for the linear minded to hold paradox lightly and understand seeming contradictions as inter-dependent. From a fully enlightened perspective, there are no preferences, but, there are always two truths, ultimate and relative when discussing phenomena. Relatively, yes the preference for spiritual wisdom experience is better and higher up than lets say, robbing people and suffering the negative impact of this. In the spiritual path, we cultivate beneficial experiences in order to go higher up the ladder and build enough merit to free ourselves from the attachment to experience. But, during this process one accumulates enough merit to act through and benefit beings. Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche teaches this and is in fact one of the first things he talked about the first time I met him. Nagarjuna talks about the two truths, and when talking about spirituality, we talk like this, referencing ultimate and relative, but as interconnected and not really dualistic because the ultimate in Buddhism is not a transcendence, but rather seeing the inherent emptiness and lack of self essence of all things. This is how awareness becomes non-dual by seeing what duality truly is from a state of pristine cognition. This is what Buddhism teaches and this is also what Rinpoche teaches. He talks many times about cultivating the experience of rigpa and integrating it with all levels of experience in order to self liberate all the physical/psychological knots which cause the mis-interpreting of experience. Sure there is this, but that is just a level of experience. There is both the up and down things that happen with individuals in Buddhism, but rigpa transcends yet embraces all of this equally. Also, dependent origination shows no primal source and shows primordial beginninglessness, so is not a top down philosophy or psychology in the ultimate sense while most others are. Your kundalini experience was reflective of your karma. We still focus more on the heart and grounding in Dzogchen as well as fully integrating instead of just going up and up and up.

Vajrayana does this "dissolving" as well and stilling the pranas or wind energies in the central channel through awareness. We also have more of a fluid take on the chakras than traditional tantric Hinduism.

Yes, I found that my Rinpoche awakens people to shen first then slowly through teachings in yantra yoga (our version of hatha yoga not to be mistaken with meditation on yantras or mandalas) we then integrate our shen experience or Rigpa with our chi or prana, thus purifying our jing and creating a balance through a process of cleaning through the practices. Of course if one can stabilize shen upon the initiation experience, then the arising of purification movements "Kriyas" happens on a deeply subtle level with very little outer or physical trauma as the transformation happens naturally by releasing into naked awareness and much of the physical changes happens during lucid dream space. But, most people have to practice stabilization in the pure experience of "Rigpa" through various techniques. Kundalini of course wakes up, but we don't call it "the coiled one" because in Buddhism we awaken the energy in a different way as described above and still get the results of higher intelligence, creativity, etc. Here is a link that describes beautifully what I was talking about above and a little quote from the link. For a really good book on Indo-Tibetan Buddhist treatment of yoga and the energy of it largely known as kundalini, check this... Yantra Yoga: The Tibetan Yoga of Movement Also... The Bliss of Inner Fire: Heart Practice of the Six Yogas of Naropa Considered one of the best English translations of how Kundalini or Candali Yoga manifests in the Buddhist tradition.

Kundalini is utilized in Vajrayana, but within a different view, context and treatment, thus there are less reports of "Kundalini Madness", due to the way the Masters awaken it in other beings through awareness first in a more top down fashion rather than through the primal forces in the body first.

That's my own feeling as well! I've always been astounded at popular humanities tendency to gravitate towards the dark side of everything...

Yes, life is full of paradox. Not for the linear minded. Yes, correct within context. But, I also said they are all equally empty and mutually dependent so none are inherently ultimate. Just one is more beneficial than another. That higher experience arises dependent upon the awareness of the uniformity of emptiness of all experience and sentient beings. Yes, ultimately speaking, because you as well as all your experiences are empty of inherent existence and the mass of your experiences are all relative, equally. Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche believes the very same. So I guess based upon the idea expressed by you above, Rinpoche is also deluded? It is also my experience through Dzogchen that the above is not a delusion but a stable and complete truth. Through the practices given by ChNNR, who you say you've received transmission from, one can have a direct experience of this truth... very deeply heart felt experience right there in the center of the heart chakra with the experience of the "blue vajra", or blue sphere or in sanskrit, "nila bindu."

Not that your experience was imagination. I have no doubt that this happened to you. As I've had similar experiences, but coupled with bliss when under the umbrella of my lineage, and then again coupled with extreme pain and visitations of tooooo much information override while not under my lineage guidance. What I was meaning is that your take on Indian paths is an image projected based upon your criteria for information largely within the scope of the limits or expanse of your experience originating your interpretation of symbols and history. Which is fine... but, not the whole truth in my own experience, interpretation and memory of history. I'm saying that there is a wider scope to view all this from which subverts your current standard of interpretation, or rather could expand upon it. That is all. Buddhism for instance is NOT a top down, or bottom up path like most of Hinduism is with a primal source of all that we cycle from and back to in a high to low back to high sense. It's actually a sideways path due to D.O. and E without a primal origin, beginningless and endless on all levels simultaneously. There is nothing to transcend or merge with ultimately speaking. This is an entirely different revelation from the Vedic stuff and not a fire based path.. It is actually more water, especially recognized in it's more esoteric revelations of Vajrayana. Which is why Vajrayana doesn't have so many of these recorded "Kundalini Psychosis Syndroms" which happen so much in the fire based paths. It is also more all pervasive space oriented encompassing a balancing of all the elements for the sake of benefiting all in every moment, at least as an ideal and realized in all Buddhas. Of course this utilization of spacious wisdom is for all elements manifesting uniquely for all diverse types of beings and thus can pop into any -ism if the individual is so ready. The first thing my Rinpoche taught me when I talked to him one on one was how to purify my water element.

I would not say they outnumber the gangsters, not that everyone is a gangsta in the hood. But, most of them are bitter and deeply into the "dark side" mentality. There are definitely good and compassionate people in the ghetto, and from the ghetto who got out of the ghetto. But most, that doesn't mean all, but most older people in the ghetto are pretty bitter, or happily drunk.

I've lived in the same projects that Tupac lived at in Marin City called the Jungle. I've lived in the hood in Oakland, CA. I've lived in the Tenderloin in San Francisco; Harlem, NY; Jamaica, Queens of 50 cent fame and Bedstuy, Brooklyn of J-Z and Biggie fame. You won't find much compassion in the hood unless you really know how to hold down that light and know how to shine it in a way with advanced awareness, but once they leave your presence, they'll be back to greedy, heartless and cold activities... for the most part and think that meeting you was just an Alien experience. Being shady is a full time job in the Ghetto and most hearts are closed and locked up due to having been hurt too many times. It's an extreme situation of lots of negativity with lots of "hungry ghosts" running around feeding the cravings of the suffering. It's because they've all been taught that money is the root of all happiness instead of inner contemplation. There is nothing but scheming and social thinking going on in the hood. There isn't much "space" for a really deep thought with all the "Black Magic" that fly's around in the ghetto. Ghetto people are bonkers!! I know... I am one. But, I live in a good area now, right across the street from the beginning of a ghetto, but at least not right inside of it.

Cool!

Mutually interweaving cooperative generation? It's just that she takes certain symbols and her own experience, as well as the limits of her reading as a justification for her view. Which we all generally do. But, there are so many symbols within the Indian traditions like the shree yantra for example that integrates very well with the idea of utilizing the entire spectrum of human capacity in order to realize what all this cosmos "is" in a grounded sense. Also the ideas of transcendence are not really literal in the ultimate sense, as we are merely working to transcend limited views, not transcend what is right in front of us or in us, but see through it and understand completely the power behind seeing and being while on Earth for the benefit of all beings. Muktananda talks about people who have kundalini awakening from the top moving down. My Rinpoche awakens people to awareness first, then discusses energy. Anyway... there are many, many examples which subvert her view IMO. I haven't fully returned, no. I've had different experiences during Dzogchen practice depending I feel on what is needed. Yes, like meditating in a grave yard.

Yes, it is the Buddhist view. Liberation from psychological suffering is the goal of the spiritual path according to Buddhism. This has many side effects including the revelation of an individuals ultimate potential. Her ideas seem more like well formulated imagination than reality. There are plenty on the Buddhist and Hindu paths that experience a downward from up, more water like spiritual awakening as I did until I started messing with things outside of the prescribed path and it's medicine. Also, the Buddhist and Hindu view is indeed that one is merely returning to what one already is and that we have evolved out of this primordial truth. Though the view of both Hindu and Buddhist of what exactly is the truth is different, the idea that we are merely returning is prevalent in both. I personally have a lot of fire in my system already, so my spirituality has been to focus more on water for cooling and calming purposes. My Rinpoche even suggested that I focus on the water element. My experience has been more of a top down progression, or returning. Sure there are many references to this concerning a "satya yuga", the cycling of ages. There are references of this in Western mythology as well. I agree. I agree, from a certain perspective. The Buddha said there are 84,000 entrance points to liberation. I don't know if this is just a metaphor or some spiritual mathematical fact?

Your interpretation needs expanded context from within. One is grounded but not bound, one sees right through as everything is revealed as transparent. I've said this many times. Rocking chair bandit. Those devoid of right brain capacity lack an open heart, are unaware of their emotions and lack imagination.

Yes, this is definitely true for me, they are not totally different in my opinion. That is a very interesting thought. I'm hmmmmning right now. Hmmmmmmmmm.

We are made of our experience and the quality of our interpretation of experience is also an experience. There is a hierarchy of experience. There is the experience of suffering and the experience of freedom from suffering. The whole point of the spiritual path is to experience freedom from psychological suffering even if we have to undergo hardship of physical pain, an enlightened being experiences this as bliss. That is much better and a higher experience in the ladder of hierarchy of experience than wallowing in suffering both psychologically and physically due to negative karmas. According to Buddhism, they are all inherently empty of any substance and arise dependently, so one can always change ones view of an experience while it's happening, thus changing the quality of the inner experience of an outer occurrence. Everything is malleable due to emptiness. But, this does not excuse the fact that even emptiness is an experience referencing the emptiness of experience. There most definitely is a hierarchy of experiencing, and it's a very important one to recognize, without getting all caught up in the seeming dualism at the same time. Also a true Guru does not wish to attract disciples. Some Gurus actually really test their disciples to even see if they are ready to receive what the Guru has to teach. Some Guru's only have two or three disciples and that's all that they will allow, and they live in a cave together and the Guru teaches them the secrets of life. Don't mistake negative interpretation as rationality, as it is neither rational, nor wise.

Ah... ok. Thanks for that clarity. I fully agree!

No it is not only Westerners that feel this way. Many, many Indians do as well. It's part of the Hindu tradition in fact to think that all paths lead to the same end. I don't fully agree. But, I can't disagree with anything that you have just said. It's all spot on in my opinion.

This is not always true. There are plenty of people who experience kundalini awakening in the Hindu and Buddhist tradition from upward to down. Also, our goal is to be really grounded in the now, on Earth, right here! Even in Buddhist practice, we practice developing Bodhichitta in the brain first, then bring it down, and up and down through the central channel. We eventually reach the non-dual, transcending such notions of up or down. The chakra idea, is really just a focusing tool and not to be taken to be an inherent thing. It is all mind, there is no up or down, there is just energy.

I think there are certain schools of Taoism that are deeply influenced by Buddhism and Hinduism due to cross pollination during the first centuries of the A.D. which might have seemingly similar goals. Supposedly even Martial Arts originates in India, but blossoms in China and Japan while it died for the most part in India.

I agree, the goals are not the same, but I still think there is a kundalini process at hand here. Just like the kundalini process of Buddhism and Hinduism as well as their goals are different in my opinion as well, though not as different as Taoism is from both Hinduism and Buddhism.