Enishi

Bible Thumpers and Sutra Thumpers and College Textbook Thumpers are all pretty much cut from the same cloth IMO.

The problem with Friday is that I work that day as well. *Cries* I can access Skype at the student center at the university next to my job though, and there aren't too many people there on Sundays... (Edit: Nevermind, just noticed and registered for the Saturday class. Lol)

Unless someone is able to materialize in front of you with a physical body after dying, or can show you evidence that they've lived much longer than the ordinary human lifespan, it does seem that the very term immortal would be sorta suspect.

I'd like to take the Skype class. However, right now I have to work every Sunday, and although I can take my lunch around 1 to synchronize with the course, they have Skype blocked on the network. Another possible option would be to drive over to Starbucks. I'm wondering if this would be a good idea though, especially if I have to learn any sorts of movements, etc....

*Shrugs* I guess the MSM will now be overjoyed have something else to focus on besides Iran or the economic crises...

I was more of a liberal/progressive myself...until I stumbled across libertarian websites. To me, the Dao De Ching has a very libertarian feel to it. Of course, there are different flavors of libertarians. Lao Tzu probably wouldn't have felt the anarcho-capitalist libertarians were very balanced (and neither do I). Many libertarians also ignore the ways in which Big Business has essentially received a steroid shot from state intervention, a problem which the Left-Libertarian Kevin Carson does a good job of pointing out on his blog. http://mutualist.blogspot.com/

I wonder if perhaps when many mystics perceive what they interpret as the eternal/inherent/akashic level of reality, they are seeing this endless chain of outside information which serves as background structure for a soul. The difference is that they see it as a inherent plane or higher self, whereas Buddhas don't. One thing that I believe should be brought into consideration though is that just because some masters don't phrase things in terms of dependent origination, doesn't mean that they don't perceive it. The cultural and religious environment in which they exist, along with the level of understanding possessed by their disciples, and various other factors, need to be taken into consideration.

I agree about pigs, very developed minds. I have a friend with some pot bellied pigs. Their intelligence and emotional personalities are comparable in certain respects to that of a human toddler. Same thing with dolphins and elephants. The group soul phenomena applies moreso to certain types of fish, flocks of birds, plants and insects if I remember correctly.

I don't meditate much at the moment, too many other interests and activities pulling at me. I'm trying to just stay on a regular committed schedule, even if it only amounts to a measly 20 minutes a day. This is one reason I also occasionally like some repetitious forms of work which don't require much thought. It gives one an oppurtunity to practice increased awareness, mantra, prayer, etc.

*shrugs* According to some traditions, various species of animals have a group soul of sorts (devas and angels), kinda like cells in our body. And thus, the death of a single animal isn't comparable to the death of a single sentient being.

Very fascinating! This is probably one of the best discussions I've seen on here in awhile, and it actually rekindled my interest in Buddhism (although I still feel more comfortable with Taoism or Mystic Christianity as a path at this point in my life). One's mind does tend to get wrapped into a pretzel though at the thought that there's an infinite number of Buddha's, but also an infinite number of mindstreams which are not yet enlightened, and that they will always exist due to the fact they're recreating each other every second.

Even though I have an easier time thinking of things in a substantial sense, the idea of ending up in eternal, featureless formless homogeneous state and remaining that way forever and ever never did really appeal to me. Perhaps the beings who remain in those levels for a bazillion kalpas are eventually reborn elsewhere because they get really, REALLY bored after awhile, lol.

Oh definitely. My main point is that its best if you can integrate this practice into your life in a manner which is healthy both to you and those around you. At least that's the way I'm looking at it in regards to my own current situation. Even if I don't reach final enlightenment in this lifetime, every little bit counts is my philosophy.

Although at this point in time I don't really "know", I do think that Buddhism may have it right in regards to dependant origination. Although the idea that there is an eternal, imperishable and unchanging foundation to reality does feel right from my current standpoint, it does seem odd that this eternal and unchanging essence would somehow emanate the temporal, illusionary existence of our day to day experience. Perhaps that which seems eternal is in fact empty and dependant on its temporal emanations, just as the temporal emanations are dependant on the eternal. One recent thought I had is that when some mystics perceive various formless realms and platonic souls/ideas/aspects of God which they interpret as eternal, they are in fact seeing basic "patterns" of reality which give it structure, but are themselves empty and dependant on the ever changing mindstreams moving up and down from these levels. Still, it also seems to me that if your main desire is to live a more integrated and balanced life without turning neurotic, various schools of taoism may be more useful and knowledgeable so far as "conventional" existence goes. Personally, I never liked the attitude of "omigod omigod, we need to become enlightened now or we might end up as a bug in our next life!". Yes, practice is necessary, but all things in their own due time. If we're eternal, why so serious?

I stumbled across the dark zen website myself and thought it seemed interesting. I tried the meditation and noticed a stronger sense of energy within the body than usual. I do wonder whether it's all just the author's egotistical interpretation of things though.

I've been lurking on this forum for a number of years. I've had a long time interest in mystical philosophies and a strong desire to understand the inner workings of reality.

I can see where the buddhists are getting at in that by setting up an "ultimate" reality which is completely self-sufficient and independant from temporary phenomena, you're still falling into a subtle form of dualism. On the other hand, to say that there is no inherent nature and characteristics to reality behind temporary phenomena at all doesn't really make sense to me, as in that case, it would seem that there should no matter, no energy which drives thing, no taobums or consciousness to observe it, only a total void. It makes more sense to me to say that reality has certain features such as total wisdom, love, consciousness and the will to express itself. Of course, these aspects are just aspects, and wouldn't define reality as a whole. I guess it's just impossible to try to describe the nature of reality with words and concepts without falling into either the eternalist or the void camp, and unless you're actually enlightened, you can't help but think along either line. I personally find that I have more of an affinity for the teachings/system set up by the late Daskolos, the central figure in the book "Magus of Strovolos". His followers have set up a website here: http://daskalos.org/Daskalos_Researchers_of_Truth_System.htm I suppose they do make the error of falling into the eternalist, ultimate substance camp, but at this point in my life I prefer it over the "all is void" way of thinking.