forestofclarity

I've had an on-again, off-again relationship with martial arts. I was always drawn by the promise of fitness, self-defense, and spirituality, but for me I have found they tend to fail on all counts. There seems to be a triangle here--- the more you focus on one dimension, the others tend to suffer. So for self-defense, the best would likely be some MMA training, but there is no spirituality there. The more spiritual arts strike me as useless for other aspects. The main issue I have with MA though is the violent/aggressive mentality. I have a hard time avoiding that, and judging by my other students, so do most of them. For me, it usually shows up in how I handle conflicts in dreams.

Simple, but not necessarily easy. One of my teachers used to be a bit bemused at modern Westerners who think we can accomplish in our spare time (some even in a weekend) what it took the old masters many years in isolated retreat, despite the stress and distraction of modern living. I think there is something in the modern Western mentality that thinks we can easily achieve whatever, but it generally tends to lead to a watering down of the practice and fruit (presuming folks even get the base correct, which in IME is trickier than supposed). But I guess we'll find out--- the older generation of Western students should be about to go rainbow.

To fall again on Chan paradigms, there is what you are, and that never changes. This is the essence. What changes is how it (not that there's an "it") expresses. That is the function. So the work is not the change the essence, but the function. I would go further and say that while the essence is unchanging, the recognition of that does change, as does the depth and stability, of that recognition (which is actually at the experiential point outlined above). So it's one thing to be the Self (so to speak) and another thing to recognize or forget that you are the Self. Just like in a dream, I may recognize I'm dreaming and be free, or forget I'm dreaming and be bound by it. And this recognition comes and goes in the dream. But even when recognized, the mere recognition is not enough--- one's entire being should be reorganized around that recognition, so that one lives it moment to moment. Like in the dream, once I recognize I'm dreaming, it can be a lot of work to bring my actions in line with that recognition-- such as learning to fly or put my arm through a wall.

From the Chan point of view, it is often said that just because the sun is out it doesn't mean all of the ice is melted. Usually, there is a twofold process: 1) removing ignorance and 2) cultivating the positive expressions. The second is used to benefit sentient beings. In addition, from a Tibetan Buddhist POV, you have levels of insight. the first level is the understanding level, where you get it mentally. The second level is experiential, where you have experienced, but there is no stability. The third level is realization, which is unchanging. There is a saying that goes: From this level, people will confuse 1/2 with 3. Often what prevents the progression are mental/energetic habits, and one's capacity. At any rate, this is an ongoing debate in Buddhism, usually revolving around two axes: 1. Gradual vs sudden. The most common compromise in Chan/Zen is sudden enlightenment, gradual cultivation. But there are other schools with different combinations. 2. Easy vs. complex. In Buddhism, this comes up all the time. There is always skepticism of the orthodox school about the new schools. Many of the arguments in this thread have been leveled at the Chan/Zen school, Dzogchen, etc. I see these same points argued again and again, but often each side fails to see the other, until some realized master comes along and fuses them together.

Everyone of course thinks they are doing this, or some equivalent--- aligning with the dharma, following God's will, etc. The issue is discernment. Personally, I've found that most established spiritual paths are quite experiential. I've also found that what one experiences depends on the specific tradition one follows. I don't think it is such a stark either/or. Having said that, there are "awareness" type teachings in Daoism. ---------- Sometimes for fun, when I see some one is having issues with non-dual type teachings,, I like to insert the word "space" instead of awareness. It sort of throws everything in a new light.

I would work on connecting with a teacher. Without a teacher, one of two things is likely to happen: 1. Nothing happens, in which case you've wasted your time. 2. Something happens, in which case you will certainly need guidance. I wouldn't recommend working on your own, because you'll end up installing habits that you'll have to undo later. Just some thoughts. Good luck either way.

What is this? 😍

There's was an interesting comment made by about changing traditional ways to make it easier to do. The problem lies in discerning whether the traditional way is somehow essential to the ritual. In this case, I wonder if the traditional way of holding the stalks and taking the time to cast them in some way impacts the divination that may be lost when not done. Wonder if @Taomeow has any thoughts.

See above.

I would not recommend a set, I would recommend a program.

I've always been told that it is the state of mind when this stuff arises that matters. When you set up to meditate, a lot of things might come bubbling up. The more clinging/craving/aversion one applies, the more we're increasing/reinforcing those mental habits. But if we can relax and let them arise and dissolve, then it is considered a way to purge old karmic seeds.

It seems to me that it's all nature, just what kind of nature you want. We could set up the conditions to cultivate health and happiness or misery and illness. I wouldn't say illness and suffering is unnatural, because it appears to me animals also get ill and suffer (maybe even plants--- I tend to be pro-plant sentience, but others may disagree). Otherwise, why would I follow my will power and practice wuji/qigong/meditation rather than follow my evolutionary bodily instincts to binge on high calories foods (and to eat them all NOW rather than save some for later)?

A few to check out to get you started: https://www.immortalarts.org/ https://damomitchell.com/ https://nathanbrine.com/ I haven't checked them all out personally, but that is where I would start based on reputation.

No comments, but it is funny that when I was in high school reading the first Taoist books, it was called "8 Drunken Fairies."

Interesting question. Per some Taoist teachings, yin and yang emerge as a result of fundamental imbalance--- similarly with Buddhism.

I am not sure that it is. It appears to me that Chinese medicine is very contextual and subjective. It depends on a thorough knowledge of internal states, is very personalized, and relies on a paradigm largely rejected by materialist culture. It would be one thing if people could move smoothly between two paradigms, but generally we take one as THE truth. So what you described above--- an attempt to integrate, but then modern medicine becoming dominant and Chinese medicine slipping away, is exactly what I would expect to happen. And look at what has happened when the West encountered meditation: it ends up stripping out the essential parts and reducing it down to relaxation or a way to more efficiently work for a company.

It seems to me that illness and negative emotions are symptoms of imbalance, whereas physical and mental health are a sign of greater imbalance. I wouldn't say that negative emotions cause illness--- that is likely due to a number of causes, such as poor nutrition, air quality, lack of sleep, the presence of viruses, brain chemistry etc. But certainly negative emotions will make one more susceptible to these things. The problem is, you cannot just alter your emotions like you can your diet. It takes a lot of disciplined work over a long period of time in connection with a proper source of teachings.

I watched the Foundations video. Thanks. I knew almost nothing about the Yijing, and what little I knew is evidently wrong (or influenced by those damn Confucians!) Thanks, I'll check it out.

The whole medical thing is an ongoing issue for me. Personally, I don't trust modern medicine-- and not because of the science behind it, but rather the rushed aspect and over-reliance in my mind on drugs and surgery. I also don't think most doctors take the time to properly assist us with resolving issues. Of course, it is difficult given the complexity of the human body. Finally, it is so body centered. TCM, from what I can tell, is actually fairly new having largely been modernized by the Party in the 1950's/1960's to provide cheap health care to a large population. I wonder how much efficacy got lost in the process. It is one thing for a practicing qigong/neigong person with first hand experience of the internals to use it in medicine, but I'm not so sure about the modern sterilized version. In addition, I hear that some aspects, such as pulse reading, are too hard for many people to learn and apply properly. In addition, it is very holistic, so I doubt the quick treatment model is the way to go. Of course, there is the modern medicine version of acupuncture, which cuts out even more and essentially reduces the whole thing to poking pins in bodies. There are certainly a lot of TCM schools/doctors/practitioners in my neck of the woods, but if I had to guess, I'd bet like qigong most of what is out there is fairly worthless.

Are there any good online Yijing courses? I'd like to learn more about it, but don't want to read a bunch of books.

If you’re exercising discretion and acting from a place of compassion, both for oneself and others, then of course not. And I would suspect such a one would take other actions to minimize the spread, i.e., to do one’s part.

The issue is that our actions affect other people. In an interdependent world, there's no such thing as an independent action. If some one has a valid, society-centered set of arguments why we should not be vaccinated, that is one thing. But if we're thinking that our self-interest trumps the communal interest, that is another thing all together.

I'm not saying this to be argumentative, but why would people question the narrative if there is no rational alternative offered? And if offered, shouldn't we also subject the counter-narrative to the same questioning?

I think everything is kind of like that. The trouble with English is that it is very thing based. Evidently, in classical Chinese (according to scholar/practitioner David Hinton), any noun can also be a verb, and vice versa. So even a table can be a tabling, which makes sense as everything is in a constant state of flux. And perhaps from a Taoist point of view, the attempt to solidify the world interferes with the underlying energetic flow of all things, and leads to stagnation. The more nouny the ego, perhaps the less efficiently it can function. Just riffing here.

COVID death is only one COVID related metric. Others are ongoing medical issues, i.e. "long haul COVID." Plus, collapsing the entire medical system has vast second order effects. How many are suffering and dying because the hospitals are overwhelmed, the medical staff is exhausted, etc. I don't really see a lot of death images in the West. I feel we do everything in our power to deny its very existence.