forestofclarity

Richard Miller’s Yoga Nidra: A Meditative Practice for Deep Relaxation and Healing

Certainly, there is no end to the types and varieties of mental states. In the end, the source is infinitely expressive, and we can spend our entire lives chasing after things, people, states, etc. I imagine meeting God or Goddess, and they are able to grant us whatever wish we desire. Many people would wish for health, long life, riches, fame, sexual partners, all of which could be supplied. But how many of us truly would turn down all those expressions, and say I don't want what you can provide, I want you? Of course, we all think we would, but then moment to moment, we often end up chasing after those expressions.

I hate to say it, but when it comes to general health, wellness, and vitality, I have not found anything better than Western style exercise. You also don't need to spend hours a day doing it, it is easy to learn, and there are many competent teachers. It is good therapy for stress. There are several problems with qigong. 1. is finding a competent teacher, which is harder than it seems (at least for me). To really get the alignments, you need a good teacher. 2. is finding a competent teacher willing to show you the system. A lot of competent teachers veil the teaching in mystery, stretch out the training, etc. 3. it is, in my mind, a form of meditation, which means it works better if you have focus. 4. it takes time. For a busy university student in the midst of stressful changes, I would recommend regular exercise, and once settled, look into qigong.

That depends, I suppose, on where one is in practice, one's tradition and so on. But usually there is a recognition that goes along with the resting.

Contrived stillness would be born from blocking thoughts (another meditation error I am also intimately familiar with). I'm talking more of the "sinking mind." Sometimes, when the mind is not occupied with thinking, it becomes clouded and dull, a sort of comfortable semi-sleep or trance. There is actually a moment when the senses turn off, like when you're falling asleep, so it is easy to think of as a profound state, like you've gone into the void or something.

I used to just sit during my Soto days. I always sank into a dull, warm trance. Unfortunately, it was exactly the wrong direction. So I'm a bit skeptical about the instruction "just be" on its own.

A lot of people use hard focus on concentration for meditation, which I know can cause a lot of issues. Focus should be soft and open, IME. However, a lot of people blame the esoteric or unusual when often regular life reasons may be to blame. Regular exercise, good sleep, and a proper diet can go a long way. It is hard to tell over the internet which is why is often helps to connect with a live teacher.

I think Christianity often does as well--- when I read the historical mystical texts and modern commentaries, I am always struck by the subtle dualism. As for Dharma religions, some people take it very literally. Like the Buddha is a literal sentient being external to you and you should worship him so he will send you money. My Master Liao story can be found in this 14+ year old post below. However, it will not convince skeptics as the experience was subjective to me. For me, these things are like meditation experiences-- they come and go, and so many people get distracted by them that they miss the point.

I actually wonder if consistently focusing the attention on any spot, or physical area, isn't a liability in the long run. I used to do a lot of somatic, body practices. While very grounding, these practices led me to have a strong but mistaken sense of self. I have had to spend quite a bit of time "unlearning" much of this. Head centered meditation seems especially pernicious because many people in Western cultures often locate a sense of self there. Part of this is due to an imaginary line you can trace from your line of sight backward behind the eyes, part of it is due to the focus on the brain, part of it is due to the cephalization of our senses. Also, nearly every Taoist teacher has warned about getting qi stuck in the head.

Correct! All roads lead to Mt Athos if you are talking high-level Christian cultivation, or so it seems. I think they were able to preserve the traditional methods of realizing God--- much of which was likely lost in the West as you note given the emphasis on reason/philosophy. I think there's a reason that most religions are still around. If there was no authentic spark, they would have died out. Although, in this day and age, I don't know if people are connecting with the actual divine, or use self-hypnosis to convince themselves that they are. I feel this even with Buddhist and Taoist forms, wondering if we are, on some level, merely brainwashing ourselves. I read a book recently by an anthropologist on modern evangelical Christians (When God Talks Back) who essentially analyzes their spiritual training as a form of mind training or self-hypnosis. However, the raw strength of spiritual experiences tends to undercut that. External criteria would be nice, but I have yet to experience anything that would convince a skeptic (even if very convincing to me). Of course, I haven't seen people materialize out of thin air, walk through walls, fly around, emit light and so on.

You'll never guess where this monk was from.

Well, if you want to turn your stomach, check out the life of St. John of the Cross. Meister Eckhart was declared a heretic. Giordano Bruno and Joan of Arc were burned at the stake. One need not look far to find the persecution of mystics of the Church, which I think was Dwai's point, rather than listing specific mystics who were persecuted.

I got this interesting update from GoFundMe:

If I had to bet, it is probably the Greek Orthodox monks at Mt. Athos.

Interesting thread. I have always noticed in myself a tendency to grasp toward some independent, objective notion of truth, but I don't think there is one. We're all unique expressions of the Tao, so I agree with OP that a "one-size-fits-all" approach doesn't work. There is a lot of emphasis on lineage, but I've known plenty of lineage masters who have said that lineage is no guarantee of realization. I also feel there is an unseen sentience that seems to "lead" me in my spiritual development. However, I cannot stress the importance of being involved in a lineage with a realized teacher. The help offered extends beyond time and space (and even death), IME. I just don't think it is possible to do it yourself, unless one is at the level of a lineage founder or a Buddha. In addition, only a realized teacher can confirm whether you're on the right track, answer questions, identify your blind spots, etc. I think there is more room for practicing on one's own on the Buddhist side rather than the Taoist side. Taoist arts are very precise, and subtle (again, IME anyway), and rely on specific bodily/energetic mechanics.

I think people use the word "science" to try to make it more acceptable to skeptics. But Buddhism is not really a science in my mind. We don't develop hypotheses on our own and design experiments to test them, controlling variables, relying on peer review and so forth. Rather, we are presented with a series of truths and a method to realize those truths (taking precepts, practicing meditation, etc.), but the ultimate goal is to be free and free from suffering. In this way, it is more like an art that is handed down from person. Also, unlike science, Buddhism has a moral component that is essential. Science creates medicine and nuclear bombs. Buddhism is designed to create Buddhas and Bodhisattvas. Finally, much of science relies on the idea of objectivity, whereas spiritual practice is necessarily subjective. When you get to the Tibetan side, it get very magical.

That would probably put you on the low to average side for many of the posters on this board.

Sounds interesting. Or like a complete disaster.

Well, the whole point of karma is that it doesn't work in mysterious ways. Karma over countless lifetimes may be hard to account for, but the point is that our actions shape us. I see it more along the lines of dreams. If I spend a lot of time watching horror movies, I end up conditioning my mind and sooner or later, I dream about zombies or whatever. Similarly, if I engage in intense spiritual practices, sooner or later I have spiritual dreams. Do I deserve it? Not necessarily, but I have conditioned myself into it. Karma isn't a sentient being, but a natural process as I understand it.

Interesting thread. I'm not sure there is a broad difference between money, love, or spiritual insight. The methods all seem to work the same, at least in my personal experience. First, from a Buddhist view, everything is driven by karma. Part of karma is merely a result of habit, so building positive habits is the most direct way. For money, you would for instance establish habits of saving, investing, becoming clean in appearance, etc. Second, be careful what you wish for. You might end up ripening your reserve of positive karmic seeds on money when it would be better used for spiritual purposes. However, it is hard to practice when you're hungry or stressed about debt or taking care of your family (I know from experience). Third, if you're going to use magic/mantra, a few things need to be in order IME: a. You have to help the universe help you. You need to do what you can to set up positive circumstances that will get you what you want. For spirituality, this means actually finding a teacher, doing practices, etc. With love, you would need to socialize, make relationships, go out on dates, etc. Same with money. You need to get out, apply to jobs, pursue education/certification in fields people are willing to pay for, etc. The divine descends as much as we ascend. b. You must have complete confidence in the method you have chosen. Even if you don't, you must when you are doing it. Using something that you are convinced have worked for others is helpful. If there is a living lineage behind a practice, that is best. This will vary from person to person. Some may need intense, complicated methods, and others don't. Be honest. c. Once you have performed the method, you need to let it go and forget about it as much as possible. Don't try to guide or direct it. You plant the seeds and water the ground. Don't try to pull the flowers up. d. Use what you have for the benefit of all beings. Use your reduced stress/money to practice, help others, move the dharma forward, etc.

We got the first generation Oculus. I thought it was the closest experience I've had to lucid dreaming while awake. It is interesting to see how, given enough time, one reifies and solidifies literal light into solid objects. I was playing this game where I tried to lean on a bar and was surprised to find that it could not support my body. I think there is a lot of potential, but it's not quite there yet.

The experiential study of identification and non-identification is an interesting one for me. My path is certainly more gradual overall. My main issue is that I had a strong connection with awareness as a kid, and when I heard all these fancy words I assumed it could not be the same thing. It seemed too simple, too obvious. Then once I got on the right track, I found all these reifications that needed to be dissolved. I don't consider myself a good representative of my schools, but I have worked through the dharma wheel from Theravada (Bhavana Society), Zen (I did some Soto in the Katagiri lineage), and Dzogchen (various), spending about 5-6 years on each. My favorite practice is probably dream yoga, which really took off once I met Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche. I also dabble in various Daoist arts, but even more inconsistently. I get the knot behind the eyes, I had a similar experience off the cushion. But as I said, then there was a sense in the center of the head, in the body, etc. Sadly it is not a "one and done" for me, as my ignorance is vast, my grasping is very pernicious, and I am quite lazy. It all seems to be unfolding in its own time, though.

I would say that people who appear normal and healthy are just better at hiding it. I remember one of Damo's talks where he said that in traditional Chinese medicine, healthy meant basically you were enlightened. We're all unhealthy in various ways.

I was just thinking the last few days that @dwai should be a moderator. Good luck!

Judging another's inner state is always fraught with peril. And people can seem calm or happy in some situations, but quickly fall apart in other situations. A lot of strong practitioners had a hard time handling, for example, incarceration and torture. Most of us will face the challenge of old age, sickness, and death, and it is here we find whether our practice has been in vain. In Tibet, there are always stories of the seemingly normal person who displayed great power at death. And keep in mind that for many of us, this is not a one lifetime sort of practice. Also, we don't know how people would have been without practice. Although I am a very lazy practitioner (not being modest), I have no doubt that without dharma, I would be dead or a drug addict/alcoholic. So it is hard to judge without seeing the big picture. Having said that, the big issue with Taoist/qi practices is that it is so difficult to find even a competent teacher. I agree that a mind-based practice is incomplete, but they are easier to transmit and generally less likely to cause harm (not to say that they are harmless, of course). My own speculation re: the Mahasi method is that it tends to quickly give rise to meditative experiences, which of course people mistake for enlightenment. The issue with many DIY arhats is that their enlightenment is too small. I've heard too many so-proclaimed arhats carry on like jerks, complain about their lack of money, their depression, their numerous and unending psychological issues, etc. Just rambling, like Anshino