forestofclarity

It just goes to show--- don't cling to the teacher. Follow the teaching.

Does anyone know where I can get a copy of Wang P'ang's Tao Te Ching commentary? I've been reading his comments in Red Pine's TTC and find them brilliantly illuminating.

My wife and I have been doing the Beginner set of Intu-Flow. We both really enjoy it so far. Her wrist popped into place after being sore for a long while. For those who are doing this, I make a list of moves so you don't have to keep watching the (they're under Intu-Flow Beginner Parts 1 - 6) or DVD. I wasn't able to find a list online. I was dismayed to find a lot of Torrents for this, though. If no one is willing to pay for this stuff, they will stop making it. Torrents for copyrighted material is stealing, no matter how "spiritual" your goals. Intu-Flow: Beginner Forms 1. Neck a. Side to side b. Slide forward, down and back c. Glide left and right d. Up and rock back e. Lift ear to shoulder 2. Shoulder Rolls a. Roll forward—shoulders to ears, blades together 3. Shoulder Swings a. Arm Circles b. Across Body c. Top circles d. Down circles e. Front circles : guitar swings f. Behind circles 4. Elbows a. Three range: extend, rotate outside, flexion b. Opposite: Down, outside, extend, up c. Both arms: forward d. Both arms back 5. Wrists a. Wrist circles, forward: top, outside, bottom, inside b. Wrist circles, back: opposite 6. Arms a. Shoulder, elbow, wrist i. Outside ii. Forward iii. Outside iv. Forward b. Shoulder up, wrist down, elbow, shoulder down a. Outside c. Together a. Outside: Shoulder, elbow wrist b. Across body: Shoulder, elbow, wrist c. Alternate forward (swimming) d. Alternate right (swimming) e. Alternate left; wrist, elbow shoulder (swimming) 7. Fingers a. Circles: thumb to pinky, pinky to thumb 8. Thorax a. Forward curve spine:/Collapse down b. Glide spine 9. Pelvic Lumbar a. Extend hips forward / Collapse and sit into chair b. Lateral: all weight on one leg, then another (sit and root) 10. Spine a. Go down and side to side or figure 8s b. Bend over forward/ Bend over back, drop head: sit down to come up c. Side bends, arm over head 11. Hips a. Lift forward (sit dows), backward b. Inside/Outside lift c. Twist in, twist out 12. Knees a. Bend forward/back b. Twist knew inside/outside 13. Ankles a. Toes out and down/flex and back b. Turn inside/outside 14. 4 CBD (support on opposite leg) a. Forward for ten b. Lead with heel, outside for ten (foot to side, toes up) c. Lead with heel, back for ten (head forward over ground) d. Forward for ten d. Cross leg into figure four, knee for ten 15. Spinal Rocks (hold knees) a. Kick with hips b. Push with chest 16. Quad Hops a. Hands in b. Feet out c. Bounce with equal weight 17. Breathing Squats (Normal Breath) a. Lift shoulders, drop shoulders b. Shoulders, elbows wrist (inhale) c. Shoulders, elbows, wrist (exhale) 18. Lateral Arm Waves (Normal Breath) a. Elbow across body (lead with elbow, straight back) 19. Dropping Arm Waves a. Down across the line, one way then another 20. Spinal Waves (Normal Breath) a. Lift shoulders, extend chest, relax/ Opposite direction

Makern, What you describe is a fairly predictable pattern in my experience: with physical exercise, with meditation, with anything. Also, what you think is an "energetic effect" may be your body purging the garbage its built up. Walker, There are six videos. Try Scott Sonnon's personal channel on YouTube and type in a search for "Beginner Part" to get all six. As for stealing spiritual things--- when I was at my poorest in life, I could always find money for cigarettes and beer. A lot of people also claim they have no time, but then spend hours on the computer, or watching TV, or reading trashy novels. When people say they don't have money, they usually mean they don't value whatever it is you expect them to pay for. Also, the fact that some one has access to torrents, and therefore a computer and internet access to watch them on tends to go against this "poor but spiritually sincere approach."

Well, it's not the divination, so much as the materialism of the use. If I had a good line to the divine, it would feel strange if I asked "Am I getting a good deal on a car here?"

I used cars.com with spectacular results. Seems odd to use an ancient book of wisdom to go used car and plane ticket shopping, but likely this is just my cultural prejudices showing.

My view is that Western elements are more like nouns and Chinese elements are more like verbs. This actually makes sense as the West tends to take more of a mechanical view and the Chinese a more organic view.

5pb really gets things flowing.

I broke down and tried Intu-Flow yesterday. I had a hard PT day with a lot of aches. Because you can try it for , I couldn't resist trying it. I liked it so much I ordered the DVD. We'll see what happens.

20 minutes is great. When I first started, I tried to meditate 5 minutes a day. But I did it every day. Eventually, this grew to 10, 15 and so on. Now, if I don't meditate, it doesn't feel right.

I will. Thanks!

One of the reasons I'm doing this is because, like many others before, I thought Santi was deluded, a huckster, or worse. After taking KAP 1, I no longer thought so. I went on a retreat last year and lost contact with KAP. After some time, the cosmos is suggesting I get back into it. I'm not one to argue with the cosmos. Besides, I want to see where this goes. Things I've experienced so far, on my second round: 1. Increased energy sensations. The energy sensations feel much stronger, to nearly the same degree as solid objects. 2. Increased emotional response. Emotions tend to sweep through the whole body. I'm told this is a more feminine type of experience. Can be dangerous with anger, but not a problem given where I'm at generally. 3. Increased recovery time after sex. Also, less drainage. Overall, increased feeling of being healthy. 4. Increased spiritual insight. I must admit, this one puzzles me, because realization is more about seeing over and over again than anything else. But I'm not one to look a gift horse in the mouth. 5. Increased feelings of bliss, especially on the weekends. 6. Increased inner heat and tolerance to cold. I also noticed that I've been feeling more "off" in the morning, but was able to determine that this was because of dehydration. 7. Increased incidence of lucid dreaming and dream recall. I won't say that KAP is the sole cause of these things as I have been cultivating Buddhist practice diligently for some years. But it is more like KAP somehow "speeds up" the process. I can't say that it is coincidence, either, as this happened last time I started KAP last spring. I can see the dangers as everything is amplified, the good and the bad.

The idea of this thread is to find out. Some of us have had more in-depth training already. However, it still seems simple. Make simple, make hard, I suppose.

Was your kundalini awakened?

Grindles, You might find this interesting reading: Small Boat, Great Mountain

A lot of Taoist arts are about reversion, or reversing the natural flow of creation in order to return to the Tao. In a sense, a lot of Taoism is against the stream. If you look at traditional Taoist texts, you'll see a lot of talk of reversion, returning to the root, guarding the one and so forth. Sexual practices may, but need not, be about channeling this outflow of energy into another purpose. How many animals beside man spend so much energy for nothing more than pure, momentary pleasure? Is this natural? As to longevity, I might suggest that long life is our birthright, one which we squander through poor acquired habits and wasteful outflows (i.e. by stress, overly complicated our lives, being unable to cope with things as they are, etc.). One theory about Taoist longevity practices is that they give one more time to develop spiritually. I suppose this all depends on what you think "natural" means.

I used to feel it was right to sit eat McDonald's, drink, smoke, and mentally curse everyone who passed by. I might not have had a lot of friends, health, or peace, but damn it, I had PRINCIPLE!

Yes, why not? Especially if your mother was a good mother.

Imagine moving your fingers. Then move your fingers. How would visualization ever work?

I think the main trouble people have with Chia, or any energy type work, is what they bring with them. I'm finding that as I learn to embody more Taoist/Buddhist principles, energy work is becoming easier. Some of the major problems I've found are: 1. Bringing the spirit of craving and competition into it. Taoist energy practices seem better when approached from a "making love perspective" rather than a "getting to the goal perspective". We may tend to want to dominate and control the energy like a tyrant, rather than yielding to it. 2. Relax, relax, relax. This spirit of craving can make us tense. I've found it more profitable to let go and open up. If you feel something, great. If not, great. A good meal should be tasted and savored. If you spend the time eating thinking of the next meal, or getting full, then what's the point? 3. Get into the body. Don't treat the body like a tool or an object. It is a living, organic thing in it's own right. 4. Too much or too little. On the one hand, there is a tendency to overdo it. Quality is more effective than quantity. It took me a long time to learn this. Also, expecting instant results without putting in the work. 5. Grounding. This is important for all aspects of meditation and energy work. If you don't have your feet firmly on the earth, there will be trouble. From my perspective, this means being to live and work as a normal, moral member of society. Energy work / meditation tend to bring to the fore some unpleasant seeds. If one can't cope with day-to-day living, doesn't have common sense or a grounding in the facts of the world, then these manifestations can be overpowering. Having a firm moral center is crucial as well. Just some observations.

How does one realize the truth?

The intellect can undo itself, if pushed hard enough. Most people don't push hard enough.

Marblehead, Why are you translating wu as mystery? Wu 無 means non-, no-, etc. Are you sure you don't mean hsuan 玄 or miao 妙?

The Chinese is going left to right: 至道, usually translated as Great Tao, can this also be translated, Great Ancestor? 唯嫌揀擇 Does the 唯 modify one, two, or three charcters? Or stand on its own?

I see that Chan and Tao are VERY similar. I notice that the Xin Xin Ming, the 100 Character Stele, and the Zuowang lun (坐忘論) point in the same direction.