forestofclarity

What is the first and second Noble Truth? D.O. is a medicine to dissolve clinging. But what happens when you cling to the medicine?

Before discriminating consciousness, what is emptiness? What is dependent origination? I suppose no one things its odd that the first link in the chain of dependent origination in the suttas is ignorance. Before even a thought arises, is there....? These things are concepts. As such, they are dependent on a mind which is able to know concepts. Without such a mind, how can one say, this is how it is? This would be like saying, clearly the English word "tree" describes a tree.

In my view, the Tao Te Ching is a mirror. Scholars see scholarly things. Qigong practitioners see qigong. Zen practitioners see Zen. Externalists see cosmology. Internalists see psychology. None of these conflict. The Tao is limitless.

Scotty, I see what where you are going. On a certain level, I agree. Your definition of enlightenment tends to go to the core, whereas all this energy/kundalini/siddhi stuff has to do with the content. In a way, it is not that much different from developing muscles or the ability to calculate complex math in your head or generate bliss states in meditation: a neat trick, but off course. Some teachers advise seeing to the core before getting involved in this stuff. After that point, there are two good reasons for developing these things: 1) to help other people 2) to overcome certain habitual attachments/obstacles On the flip side, who is to say that these side paths don't serve the Great Way?

Insults may be taken, but in this case not given. I was being literal, not ironic. Different types of enlightenment? This sounds interesting. Care to explain?

Oh good, I'm glad I was wrong. You seem to have such a level head in these things, that it seemed out of character. I assumed that by tantric, we were referring to those on the path to Enlightenment or God Realization. Words are such a tangle!

Conviction is actually a part of the old school Buddhist path. When one attains stream entry, it is said that the Buddha's way becomes clear, the belief in the personal self has been lost, and faith in rites and rituals is gone. Why all the hobbies? Maybe it is to get the message out. If they're weren't ten million screaming persons hobbying and/or profiteering on spirituality, more than likely we never would have heard about much less set foot on the path.

It seems like one is either preaching to the choir, who have had similar insights, or wasting one's breath. What do you do? Shoot the arrow and pray to God that it finds an appropriate target? Perhaps the only way. It's strange--- GIH, your posts have been hauntingly clear lately. It seems that one of us has realized something recently.

I'm sorry, I don't see the correlation between superpowers and wisdom. Simply stating that something is so doesn't make it so. If some one spends hours at the gym and has a huge, buff body, it means nothing by way of wisdom. If some one spends hours learning nuclear physics, and can build a bomb that kills millions, it means nothing by way of wisdom. Yet, one may think that if a person can display an unusual skill, this therefore means that person has wisdom, rather than that person has simply spent time and effort on a specific skill. The great Way is easy, yet people prefer the side paths. Be aware when things are out of balance. Stay centered within the Tao. TTC 53 For every one looking for wisdom, there are 10,000 looking for the powers. Shinzen Young describes the wisdom path as vertical, going from the surface to the core. The powers the describes as a horizontal approach. As one goes deeper, there is always a pull towards the horizontal, so most of us stair step. Of course, one can wander horizontally forever. Also, there needs to be some development on the wisdom path to open the deeper siddhis.

Well, there is more to the story. There is no self, dukkha, dependent origination, the skhandas, craving and its effects, etc. etc. But even the whole story is part of the story, so what you say still applies. I think this is part of the reason Buddhism developed into many schools that negate each other. What you say is not different from what the Buddha taught, either. Sometimes we have to be stubborn before we become flexible. Sometimes we have to act like idiots before we can be wise. Sometimes we have to exhaust the side paths before we see their folly. I like lightbulb jokes. One says: How many Zen masters does it take to change a lightbulb? A: None. Change must come from within.

The great Way is easy, yet people prefer the side paths. Be aware when things are out of balance. Stay centered within the Tao. TTC 53 Nice haiku, TR.

Not my job. I cannot show you anything.

Why on earth do you think siddhis have anything to do with anything?

Please don't dress up your intolerance as Buddhism. If you want people to explore Buddhism, this is clearly not the way to go about it.

I don't know why people look for a "spiritual" justification to do drugs. If you want to do drugs, do drugs. The overwhelming majority of spiritual traditions come down against drugs. The minor exceptions tend to be shamanic cultures that use drugs in specific ways, in specific contexts, always under the supervision of a master. Sure, drugs can be mind opening. So can a brutal car accident, falling off a cliff, electrocution and near death experiences. Wouldn't advise cultivating these, though.

Cat, I have found a similar pattern in my own experience with energy work--- that the energy brings the seeds to fruition. When I get sick, I usually get knocked down for 12 hours, with another 12 for recovery. My wife gets the same virus but she is less sick for longer periods of time, up to a few weeks. My old TCC teacher explained this is why sometimes you get worse before you get better. I like what both Ya Mu and Ming-Dao have to say.

The Kybalion provides a nice theoretical framework for us Westerners, but lacks somewhat in practice. The Principle of Mentalism is a special key that opens a lot of understanding. From a Western philosophical perspective, this is expounded well by George Berkeley in his Dialogues between Hylas and Philonous.

Because detachment often brings with it flavors of apathy, a push away from, a standing apart, disconnection, unconcerned, withdrawing. Some people may take it as an invitation to shut down emotions, repress feelings, and so forth. It is a movement away from (de-tachment). Non-attachment would mean opening, allowing, flowing but not stopping, aware but not clinging, engaged but not craving.

Does it make a difference if you follow, or should you let the move actually activate the motion?

Dwai, For you: Compare: Sri Atmandanda with: Thanissaro Bhikkhu I think you will enjoy this!

Non-attachment and detachment are not the same thing. I have a feeling you mean non-attachment, rather than detachment. Also, attachment takes place in the present. Living in the now doesn't change that.

Other. To realize the Tao.

The old saw "When the student is ready, the teacher appears" tends to be quite true. However, many people do not seem to be prepared for the form in which the teacher appears. Just because one does not feel that one is a wise sage or a Buddha does not mean that we are not wise sages and Buddhas, at least to some of the people some of the time. The Tao is wiley and crafty, using us sometimes in spite of ourselves!

I like doing freeform practice. I learned it from Sifu Wong Kiew Kit and Santiago (e.g. Vajrasattva). I would enjoy hearing more about it. Sifu Wong teaches that beginners should do more form practice, then switching to free form. Over time, the balance shifts. Free form seems to encapsulate some of the deeper teachings of Taoism and Buddhism.