forestofclarity

6 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

Marks bakground?

I believe he's talking about Master Huang. A quick search turned this up:

Quote

Huang Sheng-Shyan was born in 1910 in Minhou County of the Fujian province in Mainland China. At the age of 14 he began his life-long career into the ‘Martial Arts’ by learning Fujian White Crane from Xie Zhong-Xian, in which he first became renowned. In 1947 he resettled in Taiwan where he became a disciple of Cheng Man-Ching. 

White Crane + Chen Man Ching + Taiwan. Master Liao was born in Taiwan in 1948. Parallel sources? Although Mark's style is clearly colored by Bardon. 

I would note that I believe Damo and Adam both have studied the Master Huang lineage (also under Mark IIRC). 

Hmm....

I think it because the quote fills the entire edit box. Press enter a few times before pasting a quote. 

3 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

 

I think Mark Rasmus takes a similar stance to be honest. Would need to check this

Do you know his background? Seems like he has a lot of overlap with Master Liao's teaching. I don't think he was at the Chicago school, though. 

3 hours ago, dwai said:

As far as I know, only Master Liao seems to discuss/reveal this openly. I've heard other IMA teachers refer to this, but I'm not certain about its source. 

I did it a little when I was with the school, but not since. I'm not entirely comfortable with it, TBH. Nathan Brine says that Liping goes the other direction, increasing shen -> increase qi -> increase jing. 

8 hours ago, Master Logray said:

Using meditation or even enlightenment to heal the Plantar Fascia (base of feet tissue) don't work or don't work well.

I'm not sure about that either. Zhiyi used to prescribe meditation for health issues, and some Theravada Buddhists do as well. However, my main area of experience is Tibetan Buddhism. There are physical signs related to specific practices, and there are healing, long life practices, and other practices as well. What these signs are are kept hidden, mainly to prevent people from forming wrong ideas. They don't work like other practices, however. 

9 hours ago, Master Logray said:

Your examples happen to exactly reflect the Taoist view. 

Many online Daoists (and Buddhists) seem to have missed that lesson, despite claiming high levels of enlightenment.  

2 hours ago, dwai said:

Qi condensed into bone marrow ==> Jin.

I have never encountered this outside of Master Liao’s school except for possibly White Crane. Is this set out in classic sources or oral tradition only?

4 hours ago, Master Logray said:

Their counter argument is that, the Buddhist way promises a lot, but you never know it can deliver or not until after your death (similar to other religions).

I would suggest this is not the case. You laid out some Daoist results, here are some of the more public Buddhist ones: decline in suffering, decline in craving/aversion, decline in feeling numb, decline in ego reactivity, increase in compassion, increase in loving kindness, increase in equanimity, increase in joy. 

A lot of this has been and continues to be confirmed in growing scientific and research literature, so it is certainly not speculation. Brain experts have informed me that the brain changes due to meditation practice and often permanent, surviving even degenerative brain diseases, prompting more and more to attend and learn meditation practices. 

So this idea that the mind and body are separate doesn't make sense to me. One might argue as to whether the body is condensed mind or the mind is subtle matter, but they are quite connected. 

7 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

i posit that the entire ND process is written in the books.

There are many problems with books, but I will list three based on personal experience: 1) books are often written as summaries of a more extensive oral teachings; 2) due to spatial limitations, something always gets left out; but more importantly 3) the difference between a true experience and a false one are extremely difficult to distinguish, as set forth in nearly every spiritual tradition in the world, along with numerous myths and fairy tales. 

There are times when everything one has read, experienced, one's intuition, signs, etc. seems to clearly point in one direction, but the teacher, who has actually been there, says "Not quite." At this point, many people will reject the teacher, and go down the wrong path. I think generally, most people, especially modern people, underestimate the power of the delusion and just how deep the conditioning goes. 

1 hour ago, snowymountains said:

 

For other paths maybe, for Theravada anyone can ask a Bhikkhu if there exist hidden practices, due to precepts they won't lie. The answer will be a no, there aren't secret practices.

Theravada has Tantric paths, like the borān kammaṭṭhāna. You can see the influence in modern Thai Theravada as well.

1 hour ago, snowymountains said:

 

Clearly, but they're free to believe they've found the super secret hen that makes the super top secret golden eggs.

I’d say the practices are self secret at their core. A lot of folks guard certain energy practices, but these are supporting and not primary in my opinion. But some people need the esoteric link. The truth reveals itself to whom it will.

On 9/3/2024 at 6:40 AM, Taomeow said:

I haven't spoken about things taoist proper

I completely understand why you wouldn't, but I wish that weren't the case, FWIW. 

23 hours ago, johndoe2012 said:

These days I can also feel things

It seems to me what we cultivate, expands. 

In reference to your earlier request for specific feedback, do you think your posts in recent days (in this thread even) aligns with this insight, or is there room for improvement? 

3 hours ago, Giles said:

that the fabric of It is woven from pure Love.

8 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

im lucky

You can say that from one POV. From another, one might say that one's karma and dharma is unfolding as it should. We can let the egoic functions interfere with it, prolonging the unfolding in an attempt to rush it, improve it, modify it, obtain some end, etc. which will generally lead to unnecessary suffering or we can allow the unfolding to occur as it does in our personal mind stream (usually we do some of each). The egoic functions insist everything happen in a limited, specific way. Reality does what it does. 

On 9/3/2024 at 1:09 PM, Sahaja said:

His conclusion at the end is quite interesting. 

That's been my suspicion as well. I'll have to give the paper a proper read at some point. 

8 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

Perhaps you should if you think its all leverage?  I prefer Mark personally (Dwai seems to share that endorsement)

I meant specifically from Adam. I've had experiences with others, especially the Waysun Liao school, although in the short few years I was there I didn't learn any of it (or even leverage). I've met Dwai in real life some decades ago and I think he is telling the truth about his own experiences. Having said that, I generally only speak to what I've experienced directly (and typically verified with a living teacher). I've had some good experiences with Rasmus as well, and also Damo's stuff. But there's only so many hours in the day. I made a gamble a long time ago to put my eggs basically in one basket. I generally agree with your assessments.

10 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

To what extent?

A clean connection to the essence of mind + some proper relaxed concentration on the right spot --> natural development of subtle body. 

16 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

I dont think thats an issue in daoist practice

We experience things differently. No issues there. 

18 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

How the Po is involved etc? 

Not from the Daoist angle. My main practices are Buddhist, I'm more on again, off again with Daoist stuff. However, there are many works (Cleary's SOTGF, the DDJ, Ge Gulong's Inner Alchemy) that are right on point IME. 

24 minutes ago, Shadow_self said:

only a partial understanding of the  principle

Care to elaborate? 

23 hours ago, stirling said:

Dana IS a proposition in Buddhism:

Interesting fundraising point--- it's been said that people generally give more when dana is requested. However, I've heard that more places are going to set fees. Some have said it is because of the younger generation, but I think Buddhism is spanning out past the middle class. 

6 hours ago, Sahaja said:

any commentaries

Doesn't the Heshang commentary fit the bill? 

It’s absolutely ridiculous to call someone a troglodyte for requesting Dana on a website to support themselves as a dharma teacher. Maybe worthwhile to examine why you find this so triggering. 

9 hours ago, johndoe2012 said:

 

I have avoided big storms and one time when I didn't follow it, I lost a lot of money. 

Sounds like something to pay attention to.

40 minutes ago, johndoe2012 said:

I sometimes get the feeling 'do this'

And how does it turn out when you follow it? 

9 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

Wouldn't you agree  

Sure. I would also suggest that there is another form of knowing and development that is available as well at a certain point (timing is crucial here too, I suppose!). 

55 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

doing nothing

Beyond the courser conditioning there is deeper conditioning (the 7th and 8th consciousness) that usually fool people into thinking they are acting from their deeper nature when they are acting from their deeper conditioning. Which is why in my limited view we have people claiming to be fully enlightened even though an unenlightened schmuck like me can still clearly see their various egoic processes and reactions click-clacking along on full display. Even further, presuming true intention emerges, on the return the various layers of mind will still want to muddle with it. 

I'd speculate this is why people may want to rely on external signs--- a fully synched person wouldn't need them. Even so, one would have to have the discrimination to prevent the acquired minds from meddling with the interpretations. Which would bring us back to the holographic view. 

1 hour ago, Taoist Texts said:

But what went through this dude's mind? Let me tape how i can manhandle a plump senior woman, the students will line up to learn that precious and rare skill? That amazing power?

So this whole post provides examples of how people act from their acquired mental habits. If the guy is legit (which I can't assess based on a few seconds of a video or checking out how he teaches, whether he primes and conditions his students to respond a certain way, etc.), then his actions would not be coming from such a limited mental space. 

1 hour ago, Taoist Texts said:

Simple?

I don't see the synching (presuming we're referring to the same thing, I never know with you TT) arising if the acquired minds/egos are running the show, which would necessitate some level of inner work, IMO. 

24 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

well since you insists...

Not saying whether I agree or disagree, but it did make me laugh out loud. Several times. 

6 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

sometimes there are no words....

And yet...

2 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

Adam mizner for years, yet could simply test this out quite fast by simply turning up to an event

Adam does it to himself in my opinion. Personally, I haven't seen any of his demonstrations that couldn't be explained in terms of alignment and leverage. He is very skilled in this regard, but this is not necessarily a true "qi" type demonstration, but he allows people to think it is. Which is not to say that there isn't more, I just haven't personally experienced it. 

But I doubt the infamy is bad for him. For every X critics, Y people will check him out to learn for themselves. Even worse is that for every 1 person who has some mastery, there are probably 999 BS artists out there. The signal to noise ratio is outrageous and would not be tolerated in any other field. 

2 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

Its also not a "trained end" so much as a byproduct of opening both laogong and the connection between laogong and the lower dantien

My own view is that the subtle body will unfold on its own if "we" stop interfering with it. The basic mechanism appears to be quite simple, but a lot of complicated techniques have evolved (possibly in an effort to mimic this spontaneous process). 

One larger issue in modern Daoist practice is one often increases the qi in the system without necessarily thinning the samskaras/acquired mind, skipping over what I see as a very necessary step. Increasing the total energy in this case amplifies what is already there, for better and worse. I woudl further suggest that as one progresses, obstacles both internal and external will generally increase, requiring more and more skill. 

And I also think we generally underestimate how deep the delusion runs--- a sense of self impacts how we sensorily process the world, and reducing this impacts how everything is experienced. It is impossible to even write basic English sentences without invoking the false "I" in some way. And I would also suggest this runs on a spectrum--- it is not an all or nothing, which makes it even more subtle. 

Just some opinions. 

2 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

f you are familar with the homunculus model of the sensory and motor cortex, this will make a lot more sense?? 

Vaguely--- are you talking about how the brain maps the body?