forestofclarity

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Posts posted by forestofclarity

  1. Posted

    11 hours ago, Forestgreen said:

    Well this is the Bums, so someone will add "spiritual " or "sub-atomic" to the term substance, and suddenly balance will be restored to the Force while missing the point of what ChiDragon and I posted entirely.

     

    Well, I think from both a Vedic/Tantric point of view and a Daoist point of view, the subtle body is composed of substances. For instance, you have tanmatras which are subtle elements that are the underlying makeup of physical elements. You also have citta for mind stuff, and prana for a less subtle form of energy. I think Daoists have a similar POV based on past conversations here. 

     

    But then I thought better of it. 

     

    :lol:

  3. Posted

    14 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

    It was only told by the word of mouth.

     

    People either have experienced the subtle body or they haven't.

     

    If you have first hand experience of it, it is undeniable.

     

    If you haven't, it sounds inconceivable because it conflicts with the teachings of modern scientific materialism (which is actually based on incomplete Newtonian physics and is on its way out). It is sort of like trying to explain color to someone who has never seen any. 

     

    • Like 1
    • Thanks 1

  5. Posted

    9 minutes ago, SodaChanh said:

    can release the grasping of the body periphery

     

    This is what caught my attention also. Many Daoist qigong/martial artists I've learned from have taught to focus on keeping within the body periphery, which can be an issue if the boundary is open. I don't know if this is just an initial position that is later sublated or not. 

     

    15 minutes ago, SodaChanh said:

    the dissolving of feeling of 'you' in your consciousness - the universe is inside you she calls it. 

     

    Which is another issue I see in a lot of Daoist-flavored teaching. It appears to me in many cases the "you" increases and the personality becomes quite strong leading to conflict and aggression (and even physical fights that students always seem "forced" into). At least for male teachers with martial arts backgrounds, which is probably 90% of my exposure. 

     

    Just speculating, but I think because it is often a Ming to Xing path, there are often issues related around money, ego, and power. This seems to be less so with Xing to Ming or dual cultivation schools, but I don't have enough data points there. Of course, Buddhist schools often have issues around power and sex, so it is certainly not a sure thing.  

     

    • Like 1

  6. Posted

    41 minutes ago, SodaChanh said:

     

    Agree. 

     

    Rob Coons mentions 3 different MCOs here 

     

    https://immortalitystudy.gumroad.com/l/bzsdpm?layout=profile

     

    (not endorsing paid stuff but just for the sake of discussion). 

     

    This is interesting, and not the first time I've heard this either: 

     

    Rob Coons wrote: 

    Quote

    Let me be a little blunt, most people who claim to understand the Small Heavenly Orbit are only partly informed about its nature and many people think it is just about circulating the mind around the body which is a mistake which medieval Daoists called 空转何车 Kong Zhuan He Che/The False Circulation of the River Wheel since there is no Qi in the area, only mental intention which leads to the burning of the track and makes it harder to progress in the future.

     

    Which would back up Sahaja's point. 

    • Like 2

  8. Posted

    5 hours ago, Sahaja said:

    in my understanding the MCO is not a breath exercise.

     

    There are a lot of views, that's for sure. I've learned a number of MCO methods from different schools. Some say their method/teachings/results is the one true method, some don't. I've never found such views convincing personally, but that's just my opinion. I ran into the same thing with Christian churches and Buddhist schools--- it just seems like propaganda to me. 

     

    Benebell has cited her sources about halfway through here, some of which are inaccessible to me because they are in Chinese. One of her sources, Huang Yuanji uses the terms differently for different levels IIRC. I find her version interesting because, like the Ge Guolong book translated by Mathias Daly (also a Huang Yuanji teaching), she picks up on certain things that many Daoists have not that correlate to Buddhist Tantra. 

     

    https://benebellwen.com/2025/09/07/a-taoist-secret-to-cultivating-personal-power/

  11. Posted

    59 minutes ago, Forestgreen said:

    Some would say that we implant these. 

     

    But do you feel that we implant the potential of a dantian or a chakra as well? 

     

    Or that the method shapes the function of the energy centers?

     

    It is an interesting question. My initial experiences with the subtle body had no priming at all and it wasn't until later I discovered it fit along with traditional (Shaivite) Tantric descriptions. With dan tians, I had some basic priming but I was shocked at how real they've felt when I received a boost from a tai chi master.  

     

    As with all things, it is probably a mixture. Physical reality, in the traditions I follow, is like a collective or shared dream. So I think the basic structures and probably the three dan tians are a part of the consensual dream. So it is not like a personal dream and it is not the independent, physical world modern Westerners take it to be. 

     

    However, this shared dream is also impacted and shaped by our "own" minds. In Tibetan Buddhism, different chakras have different associations with the colors and elements depending on the tradition, like Wallis says --- I think these are somewhat installed. But working with the Bon model, I worked with it for a while, suspended it, and then started it again after unrelated meditative work and I was surprised at how well my current experiences fit the model --- especially when I had doubts and didn't fully agree with it. 

     

    But who knows? I like to keep the conceptual net loose to see what can develop. 

  12. Posted

    Quote

     

    It is a fact that no matter that no matter what kind of universe, or world, sentient beings appear—regardless of their different shapes or configurations, whether shaped or formed—they always do so within space, not anywhere else. When they abide and move around, it is always within space. When everything falls apart, disintegrates, and disappears—when all beings die and vanish--- this always takes place within space. They never come from some other place, exist in some other place, and disappear to some other place. There is nowhere else outside of space. 

     

    In the same way, all kinds of mental states, such as joy and sadness, as well as all spiritual practices--- such as making offerings, visualizing, thinking this, feeling that—taka place within the expanse of rigpa. Everything begins and ends with that. These states cannot vanish into any place other than the state of rigpa which is, by itself, devoid of the three concepts of doer, deed, and object. That’s why the expanse of rigpa is so precious, so basic. No matter how our state of mind flaps around, no matter what it chases after, the flapping and chasing take place nowhere other than in the state of rigpa. That’s why it is so important to recognize Riga.

     

    All the galaxies throughout the universe that have formed, persisted, disintegrated, and vanished are just a play or drama displayed within space. There is no other place this could occur. The dramas of sentient beings could not be played out anywhere but within space. In the same way, any kind of mental play of happiness or sorrow that we can possibly drum up cannot take pace anywhere else, other than in the expanse of rigpa. 

     

     

    -              Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche, Vajra Heart Revisited 

    • Like 1

  14. Posted

    Interesting conversation. 

     

    I actually tend to agree with how Christopher Wallis put it in his article. Chakras are not necessarily inherent IME, although the three main ones and the channels do seem to more universalized. The reason I say that is because practicing different chakra systems reveal different chakras, but some things appeared without priming. This makes sense in Buddhist/Tantric contexts and other models that assert the primacy of consciousness rather than matter. I would say that the energy in Buddhist Tantric systems feels different than the Daoist models so far. 

     

    I think his statement about priming is key. Even the so-called "don't do anything" approaches use priming. They will say, "Well, the relaxed mind ought to settle into the dan tian, but don't make it happen." Well, why bother even mentioning it then? It is because the seed is being implanted, but they don't want the acquired mind messing with it since it often produces false experiences or facsimiles as opposed to the deeper, reality shaping "elements." 

     

    https://medium.com/@hareesh_59037/the-real-story-on-the-chakras-b321fd662daa

    • Like 1

  15. Posted

    17 minutes ago, Master Logray said:

     

    If we keep on talking about 5-6 hours duration, how many members would still be doing standing?

     

    In his Inside Zhan Zhuang book, Mark Cohen says 20-40 minutes for health, at least 60 for martial arts, and more for spirituality.

     

    I think people miss the boat focusing on length over quality, personally. 

     

    9 hours ago, Antares said:

    Do you know it or guess?

     

    My person experience. But things may have changed, this was a few years ago. 

  16. Posted

     

    6 hours ago, Antares said:

    Bruce K.Frantzis sequence of the static postures

     

    This may be how it is online, but not how he taught in person. 

     

    2 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

    Wuji is nothing but standing still like a normal human being does. 

     

    I have learned Wuji from at least a half a dozen or so lineage matters, some of them famous, some not. None of them would agree with your statement. Proper Wuji introduces alignment, relaxation, posture, and a palpable sense of qi. Also none of them taught standing post to mean standing on a plank as you've claimed. 

     

    2 hours ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

    First, you must define Zhan Zhuang.


    According to Damo, he is referring to static postures involving lifting the arms. 

  17. Posted

    10 hours ago, Antares said:

    Anyway this book is not for beginners and who told you that Yiquan is good stuff to begin with? Why not Xinyi or Taiji?

     

    I appreciate the concern. Just for clarification, I've been recommended the specific ZZ posture and the book by my local instructors.

     

    I would say that every taiji teacher I've ever had has started with static standing postures, usually Wuji. A few have stated that if they could, they would have everyone practice nothing but Wuji for some months, but they don't think anyone in the U.S. would want to learn in such a way. 

     

    In retrospect, I don't see how one develops any sort of internal structure WITHOUT a lot of Wuji. I wish I had followed the advice earlier on practicing this more some time ago. 

     

     

    • Like 1

  20. Posted

    I've been off again, on again with Taiji and Qigong. I've taken up Taiji again over the past year after a bit of a hiatus. I'm surprised at how foundational wuji seems to be, and also at how many people tend to put it off or ignore it. 

     

    I can say that, after softening up internally and opening some stuff up, standing has gotten far easier. One issue I had generally was too much tension (and also mental clinging), and both meditation and qigong teachers in my view fail to teach how to deal with it. There is sometimes a subtle pressure to "grin and bear it" which I think locks tension into the body/subtle body. I actually had to undo a lot of this tension that I picked up from initial Vipassana practice. So in this regard, it makes sense to focus on Wuji before ZZ since it is a bit simpler. 

     

    6 hours ago, Vajra Fist said:

    40mins in ball holding pose, as recommended in Marc Cohen's book Inside Zhan Zhuang. 

     

    I've just ordered the book a few days ago on the recommendation of my local Taiji friends, so I haven't seen it yet but I've watched some of his videos and was reviewing them just today. Doesn't he start with Wuji? He does in the videos. 

     

    • Like 1

  25. Posted

    Resources related to Mahayana and Zen Buddhism. Feel free to recommend your own resources to be added. The resources here are made by members in their individual capacity and is not an endorsement by TheDaoBums.

     

    bradley:

     

    The Diamond Sutra was the first thing Buddhist I ever read (maybe six or seven years ago), and it instantly changed my perspective on everything.  Also, I think I have read that Hui neng was, and continues to be, somewhat controversial... 

     

    Link

     

    I also learned a lot reading through the prajñā­pāramitā sutras. Here is a translation of the 10,000 line one that I liked: 

    Finally, one sutra that I continually go back to, and think about a lot, is a short Heap of Jewels sutra: